Feeder Taps and or Parallel Taps

[Houston714]

Hi all, I'm trying to get better grasp of feeder taps and something came to mind:
400amp Breaker outside with double lugs on the load side. Can you split these up to feed 2 200 amp panels in 2 completely separate locations or must they be grouped?
I was in formed that they are still in parallel and must be grouped. It seems as though its the same as a feeder tap without the gutter.

Your answers will probably prompt me to ask more questions. LOL
I would really like to get this down, so all experienced help is appreciated.

 

[GoldDigger]

Hi all, I'm trying to get better grasp of feeder taps and something came to mind:
400amp Breaker outside with double lugs on the load side. Can you split these up to feed 2 200 amp panels in 2 completely separate locations or must they be grouped?
I was in formed that they are still in parallel and must be grouped. It seems as though its the same as a feeder tap without the gutter.

Your answers will probably prompt me to ask more questions. LOL
I would really like to get this down, so all experienced help is appreciated.

Since there is a single disconnect that opens both feeders, the destination breakers do not need to be grouped.
And since the feeder wires are connected to the same point (electrically) at one end but not at the other they are not parallel.

If the wires are too small to be protected by the upstream 400A breaker, they constitute taps and you have to find and follow an applicable tap rule.

 

[raider1]

I agree with GoldDigger,

Provided that the conductors attached to the load side of the 400 amp breaker meet one of the feeder tap rules in 240.21(B) you would have a feeder tap.

Chris

 

[Houston714]

Since there is a single disconnect that opens both feeders, the destination breakers do not need to be grouped.
And since the feeder wires are connected to the same point (electrically) at one end but not at the other they are not parallel.

If the wires are too small to be protected by the upstream 400A breaker, they constitute taps and you have to find and follow an applicable tap rule.

So your saying parallel conductors are wires are connected to the same point (electrically) at both ends?
I gotcha on the tap rule part. It would just be 3/0 copper sets in separate conduits with 200 amp mains in the panels.

Have you ever heard of tap rules exceeding 25 ft inside?

A lot of my book studies are in taps right now.

 

[Houston714]

I agree with GoldDigger,

Provided that the conductors attached to the load side of the 400 amp breaker meet one of the feeder tap rules in 240.21(B) you would have a feeder tap.

Chris

I agree. I asked an Inspector this question this morning and he said no they would have to be grouped because they would be in parallel. Maybe I didnt say it right.

Thanks

 

[GoldDigger]

So your saying parallel conductors are wires are connected to the same point (electrically) at both ends? Yes, and see below
I gotcha on the tap rule part. It would just be 3/0 copper sets in separate conduits with 200 amp mains in the panels.

Have you ever heard of tap rules exceeding 25 ft inside? No, but see below

A lot of my book studies are in taps right now.

Two loads are in parallel if they are supplied by connections to the same source points. There is no other end.
Two wires are in parallel if they are connected to the same point at both source and destination ends. The NEC puts severe restrictions on use of parallel wires.

A feeder tap or branch tap cannot exceed 25 feet inside, but, for example, encasing them in 2" or more of concrete allows that portion to be considered outside.
Multiple service conductor sets would not be limited by the tap rules, but are not allowed very far inside in the first place (exact distance up to the AHJ) and the associated disconnects would have to be grouped.

 

[Houston714]

So your saying parallel conductors are wires are connected to the same point (electrically) at both ends?
I gotcha on the tap rule part. It would just be 3/0 copper sets in separate conduits with 200 amp mains in the panels.

Have you ever heard of tap rules exceeding 25 ft inside?

A lot of my book studies are in taps right now.

Thanks for the imput

 

[Houston714]

Two loads are in parallel if they are supplied by connections to the same source points. There is no other end.
Two wires are in parallel if they are connected to the same point at both source and destination ends. The NEC puts severe restrictions on use of parallel wires.

A feeder tap or branch tap cannot exceed 25 feet inside, but, for example, encasing them in 2" or more of concrete allows that portion to be considered outside.
Multiple service conductor sets would not be limited by the tap rules, but are not allowed very far inside in the first place (exact distance up to the AHJ) and the associated disconnects would have to be grouped.

My bad On the "both ends" part. That sound dumb after I typed it and pushed sent. Connected at source and destination end... well put.

Here in Nashville they want that main disconnect outside unless your back to back.

Thanks

 

[Houston714]

Two loads are in parallel if they are supplied by connections to the same source points. There is no other end.
Two wires are in parallel if they are connected to the same point at both source and destination ends. The NEC puts severe restrictions on use of parallel wires.

A feeder tap or branch tap cannot exceed 25 feet inside, but, for example, encasing them in 2" or more of concrete allows that portion to be considered outside.
Multiple service conductor sets would not be limited by the tap rules, but are not allowed very far inside in the first place (exact distance up to the AHJ) and the associated disconnects would have to be grouped.

Yeah I dont do much encasing of conduits in the ground myself. But I understand what you were saying. Youve been a great help!

 

[GoldDigger]

My pleasure.