Festoon Lighting Over Pools

[Danis]

I am doing a plan review of proposed festoon lighting that is suspended over a swimming pool. My question is, would the required clearance be 22.5 feet per table 680.9(A), if you consider that an "open overhead wiring", OR would the required clearance be 12 feet based on 680.22(B) as it is for luminaires?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IMO, you would need to use the 22.5 feet

 

[Danis]

Thanks for the response. Since requiring 22.5 feet is basically saying no to festoon lighting as no one will install them at that elevation, I would like to be able to explain the reason behind one and not the other. What is the reason to pushing the clearance to 22.5 feet from 12 feet, which is reasonable for such installs? I appreciate any feedback on this.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would guess that lighting at 12' is high enough that no one will hit it and even if the pool skimmer handle could go that high that wouldn't be an issue if you hit a light fixture. However it is a different animal with festoon lighting, IMO.

 

[petersonra]

I am doing a plan review of proposed festoon lighting that is suspended over a swimming pool. My question is, would the required clearance be 22.5 feet per table 680.9(A), if you consider that an "open overhead wiring", OR would the required clearance be 12 feet based on 680.22(B) as it is for luminaires?

depends on how it is listed. if it is listed as a luminaire then it is a luminaire.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

depends on how it is listed. if it is listed as a luminaire then it is a luminaire.

I disagree-- They are overhead conductors a luminaire is not overhead conductors. The section specifically states overhead conductors680.9 Overhead Conductor Clearances.

Overhead conductors shall meet the clearance requirements in this section. Where a minimum clearance from the water level is given, the measurement shall be taken from the maximum water level of the specified body of water.
(A) Power.


With respect to overhead conductors and open overhead wiring, swimming pool and similar installations shall comply with the minimum clearances given in Table 680.9(A) and illustrated in Figure 680.9(A).

 

[petersonra]

I disagree-- They are overhead conductors a luminaire is not overhead conductors. The section specifically states overhead conductors680.9 Overhead Conductor Clearances.

if there are luminaires overhead they would need conductors or they could not provide any light. And if UL says they are luminaires, that is the end of the discussion.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

if there are luminaires overhead they would need conductors or they could not provide any light. And if UL says they are luminaires, that is the end of the discussion.

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[brantmacga]

if there are luminaires overhead they would need conductors or they could not provide any light. And if UL says they are luminaires, that is the end of the discussion.

NEC definition of a luminaire;

“A complete lighting unit consisting of a light source such as a lamp or lamps together with the parts designed to position the light source and connect it to the power supply. It may also include parts to protect the light source or the ballast or to distribute the light. A lampholder itself is not a luminaire.”


680.9 specifically says the clearance for insulated cables supported by a messenger wire must maintain a 22.5’ clearance.

Each light source may be considered a luminaire by the manufacturer but the power source is a cable.


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[petersonra]

A complete lighting unit consisting of a light source such as a lamp or lamps together with the parts designed to position the light source and connect it to the power supply

Sounds like conductors to me.

Insulated Cables, 0–750 Volts to Ground,
Supported on and Cabled Together with a
Solidly Grounded Bare Messenger or
Solidly Grounded Neutral Conductor

So this would not apply if the cable was not supported with a bare messenger wire or neutral. so if the cable had a plastic messenger it would be OK?

 

[Coppersmith]

I'm not sure I agree with 22.5 feet, however I would be very nervous having festoon lighting strung over the pool. What if a hook comes loose and the string of lights falls into the pool? Sounds risky.

 

[retirede]

I'm not sure I agree with 22.5 feet, however I would be very nervous having festoon lighting strung over the pool. What if a hook comes loose and the string of lights falls into the pool? Sounds risky.

I agree. I wouldn’t put them over my pool at any height.

 

[petersonra]

I agree. I wouldn’t put them over my pool at any height.

That I can agree with

 

[James L]

680.9(a) is talking about service drops and other cables coming from poles, or possibly between buildings.

imho, festoon lighting isn't in view because of the specific mention of messenger cable.

 

[brantmacga]

imho, festoon lighting isn't in view because of the specific mention of messenger cable.

What would you support it with?

One of my restaurant brands I build for uses it quite a bit, and we always support it with messenger cable and turnbuckles.


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[James L]

What would you support it with?

One of my restaurant brands I build for uses it quite a bit, and we always support it with messenger cable and turnbuckles.


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I've never seen it supported at all in the open air

Just hooked to the structure(s) on sides or around perimeter. Just like all the photos if you google it

 

[brantmacga]

I’ve never installed it that way, even in residential settings. I’ve always ran a steel cable and supported each lampholder individually. I certainly wouldn’t run it over a pool without a support cable.


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[geoffgelectric]

I use 24v string lights over pools and jacuzzis. Gives me a little piece of mind. I also run it with a guide / support wire.


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[retirede]

I use 24v string lights over pools and jacuzzis. Gives me a little piece of mind. I also run it with a guide / support wire.


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This, powered by a listed pool transformer, is about a safe as it’s going to get. Unless someone has come up with a fiber optic solution.

ETA: Aren’t pool transformers limited to nominal 12V? If so, 24V is a no-go.

 

[James L]

I’ve never installed it that way, even in residential settings. I’ve always ran a steel cable and supported each lampholder individually. I certainly wouldn’t run it over a pool without a support cable.


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225.6(b)