Fiber Optic Patch Panels

[FaradayFF]

Greetings,

I have several control cabinets distributed across a plant and they all need to be interconnected in a ring type topology. The customer once to use fiber to tie them together. MY question is, can I use a typical fiber optic patch panel to tie them together? Each cabinet would have its own ethernet switch.

I was wondering how this interconnection would look like at the patch panel. Would I need to go through a media converter switch to accomplish this?
Thanks,
EE

 

[PaulMmn]

Our computer room has routers/switches that have Ethernet connections to our computers, and fiber connections to our tape drives. All held together with codes in the routers/switches, controlling what talks to what.

I think you need a computer network person involved! Configuring a network isn't for the faint-hearted!

Using fiber, you have to route the fiber cable even more carefully than copper. Kinks in the fiber are absolutely forbidden! Curves in the routing must follow rules about how tight a corner is allowed.

You don't curl up extra fiber cable by winding it around your hand and elbow, then scrunching it into a compact bundle. That will totally destroy the fibers! You carefully coil it in a circular bundle, following those 'how tight a corner' rules!

You have to keep the ends of the fiber clean! Most times, the connectors on the ends of a fiber cable have plastic nipples over the business end to keep them clean. Don't 'unwrap' them until you're ready to plug them into the device that needs the connection.

Protection of the fiber is just as important-- although reasonably rugged, copper can tolerate some things that will cause fiber to fail.

 

[RumRunner]

Greetings,
I have several control cabinets distributed across a plant and they all need to be interconnected in a ring type topology. The customer once to use fiber to tie them together. MY question is, can I use a typical fiber optic patch panel to tie them together? Each cabinet would have its own ethernet switch.
I was wondering how this interconnection would look like at the patch panel. Would I need to go through a media converter switch to accomplish this?
Thanks,
EE

Hi,

I’m assuming you have ethernet (cat5) cabling. If so, you maybe using the Tree Topology.
If using coax as in BNC connection points, a minimum of cabling would be required when converting to Fiber Optics from coax ring. Single cable fiber optics--compared to Peer-to Peer cabling is a lot cheaper. Labor cost usually out price over materials. You still have to the run the fiber to its client.
There are products on the market that convert tree or star topology signal to Fiber Optics ring topology.

Check this site:

Media Converters | Link Fiber and Copper Networks | Perle

Media Converters connect different devices or networks together. Link copper to fiber, multimode to single mode, or convert and extend various types of data signals.

www.perle.com

Needless to say, there are network engineers and technicians specializing in this kind of work. I would be glad to give you some hints. . . I no longer do this kind of work.

One thing though to be considered (and the owner may not be aware of) is: fiber lacks redundancy in Ring Topology compared to Peer-to-Peer. (P2P).
A break or whatever damage, lousy workmanship in any part of the ring could bring the entire network to a standstill.

 

[PaulMmn]

One thing though to be considered (and the owner may not be aware of) is: fiber lacks redundancy in Ring Topology compared to Peer-to-Peer. (P2P).
A break or whatever damage, lousy workmanship in any part of the ring could bring the entire network to a standstill.

IBM's Fiber Channel fiber connections are actually dual fibers (send/receive). Depending on how the hub/switch/router is configured, losing one link can be programmed around so a missing connection can be 'programmed around.'

To further protect the configuration, use a star configuration to a central hub instead of a pure ring. Each device has a home-run to the hub. Any single device (or cable run) can drop out of service, but because the hub controls the connection between devices, all the other devices can continue to run. The hub logically joins the devices in a ring, but the physical connection is a star-and-hub.

 

[RumRunner]

IBM's Fiber Channel fiber connections are actually dual fibers (send/receive). Depending on how the hub/switch/router is configured, losing one link can be programmed around so a missing connection can be 'programmed around.'

To further protect the configuration, use a star configuration to a central hub instead of a pure ring. Each device has a home-run to the hub. Any single device (or cable run) can drop out of service, but because the hub controls the connection between devices, all the other devices can continue to run. The hub logically joins the devices in a ring, but the physical connection is a star-and-hub.

Home-run to the hub ?
Hmm!

Another misconception on how networking work. It is not like providing power and installing backup power supply or some kind of ATS SYSTEM.
The HUB doesn't have control on how other devices should function. It only identifies the client's device thru their MAC address, that are connected to the network.
From thereon, it goes to the SWITCH or router, The router is the device that routes the packets to the assigned destination. If misidentified as the packet arrives, the router sends it back, discard or reroute the packet.
Hence called ROUTER.

So much for basics.

OP explicitly stated that he wants RING TOPOLOGY. (look at his initial post)
What you're saying having a "homerun"--converting it from ring to tree automatically, like transfer switch is an aberration and no longer describes the RING Topology.
It is either a Tree Topology, a Star Topology or Ring Topology. There are other topologies. . . a total of six but they are (aside from the three) are for copper wire systems. . . not fiber optics.

You can't have a combination of two-- especially in Fiber Optics.

 

[PaulMmn]

Home-run to the hub ?
Hmm!

Another misconception on how networking work. It is not like providing power and installing backup power supply or some kind of ATS SYSTEM.
The HUB doesn't have control on how other devices should function. It only identifies the client's device thru their MAC address, that are connected to the network.
From thereon, it goes to the SWITCH or router, The router is the device that routes the packets to the assigned destination. If misidentified as the packet arrives, the router sends it back, discard or reroute the packet.
Hence called ROUTER.

So much for basics.

OP explicitly stated that he wants RING TOPOLOGY. (look at his initial post)
What you're saying having a "homerun"--converting it from ring to tree automatically, like transfer switch is an aberration and no longer describes the RING Topology.
It is either a Tree Topology, a Star Topology or Ring Topology. There are other topologies. . . a total of six but they are (aside from the three) are for copper wire systems. . . not fiber optics.

You can't have a combination of two-- especially in Fiber Optics.

You mentioned the lack of redundancy in the ring topology. I agree-- unless the fiber in the ring is actually a dual fiber, and the connections at each device know how to loop back in case of a broken connection.

I'm also suggesting that what defines the 'ring' is the logic in the routers/switches. If each location is a home-run back to the central hub (star configuration), a broken connection from a single device can be dealt with using logic in the router/switch at the hub. Switches aren't just for routing packets any more!

In the dark ages when we used Twinax cable (shielded twisted pair) to talk to dumb terminals, the configuration was a linear out-and-back-- one conductor outbound, the other inbound. Up to 7 devices (printers and terminals) could be daisy-chained on the same run of cable. However, one bad connection and the whole string went down (ex. ancient Christmas tree lights). As a replacement, smart hubs were developed that used a home-run from each device, and the hub turned them into a single-row out-and-back. Plus, the hub could handle a missing or misbehaving device, without affecting the other devices on that line.

 

[RumRunner]

You mentioned the lack of redundancy in the ring topology. I agree-- unless the fiber in the ring is actually a dual fiber, and the connections at each device know how to loop back in case of a broken connection.

I'm also suggesting that what defines the 'ring' is the logic in the routers/switches. If each location is a home-run back to the central hub (star configuration), a broken connection from a single device can be dealt with using logic in the router/switch at the hub. Switches aren't just for routing packets any more!

In the dark ages when we used Twinax cable (shielded twisted pair) to talk to dumb terminals, the configuration was a linear out-and-back-- one conductor outbound, the other inbound. Up to 7 devices (printers and terminals) could be daisy-chained on the same run of cable. However, one bad connection and the whole string went down (ex. ancient Christmas tree lights). As a replacement, smart hubs were developed that used a home-run from each device, and the hub turned them into a single-row out-and-back. Plus, the hub could handle a missing or misbehaving device, without affecting the other devices on that line.

Your comment which may sound articulate by the use of some words-- can also be convincing to some who don't have any idea about computer science.

Your self-effacement (agreeing to redundancy) is just a cover to camouflage your total lack (I'm sorry to say ) of understanding regarding data network engineering.
I am a certified Network Engineer.

It is best to set aside your mindset about power distribution as in wiring, running conduits etc, from a control panel to conductors and the final destination of power to operate a certain load.
Network engineering is more like logistics. It involves not only delivering the "merchandise" but also how the merchandise are created.

The merchandise is what we call data packets.

The merchandise are identified and dated and only allowed a very short shelf life. It is called in computer-speak, TTL (time to live). Not to be confused with Transistor-Transistor-Logic.
There is a reason for it's short life , but I will leave it out. . .we are not in a computer science room.

From the moment the packets are created and begin the process of making its journey to the client computer, it becomes more complicated.

Indeed, so complicated it is not for the faint- hearted who lacks the fundamental knowledge, that even Mr Google can be of very little help.

 

[PaulMmn]

I submit as an example Token Ring network topology.
https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/24201/why-token-ring-uses-a-physical-star
As one of the conversants says, "The token ring star can be thought of as a circle (ring) with various points pushed tightly toward the center of the circle. It is still a physical ring, just distorted."


(it's blurry, but that's how I found it)

 

[RumRunner]

I submit as an example Token Ring network topology.
https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/24201/why-token-ring-uses-a-physical-star
As one of the conversants says, "The token ring star can be thought of as a circle (ring) with various points pushed tightly toward the center of the circle. It is still a physical ring, just distorted."

View attachment 2551334
(it's blurry, but that's how I found it)

That's a TOKEN RING topology . . .not a RING Topology .
Token ring is the precursor to the fast Fiber Optic Ring topology. The star ring is mostly for twisted pair as opposed to fiber systems.

There are pros and cons on each system.
OP specifically wants Fiber Optics. . . so I' ll put twisted copper in the back burner.

In networking , the client's end has no control on how the packets were created and the length of each packet that travels on the data highway --from the server that created the packets. . .to your machine.

You the user can only accept what the server is "willing" to deliver. You have no control over the data. Your equipment can have the choice of (depending on the capability of your equipment) your method of cueing the arriving packets .

Your misguided notion that you can switch from one topology to another in handling the data is not in your realm of control since you are just the user.
Before the server can initiate the send command, your system (topology, speed etc.) are agreed upon by the server/client "agreement."
You don't divert from the agreed system of delivery or you could cause collision.

 

[PaulMmn]

Well, if you don't like Token Ring, how about an FDDI ring. This is fiber-- and a true ring topology-- each station in the ring connects to the next station; no central hub.

Token Ring and. Fiber Distributed Data Interface (FDDI) Networks: Token Ring and FDDI 1 - PDF Free Download

Token Ring and Fiber Distributed Data Interface (FDDI) Networks: Token Ring and FDDI 1 IEEE Token Ring Proposed in 1969 and initially referred to as a Newhall ring. Token ring :: a number of stations

docplayer.net

FDDI is built much like Token Ring-- a token is passed around the ring. Each station monitors the condition of the fiber connections in and out, and if a break is found in the connection, it short-circuits the ring, and passes data back to where it came from along a 2nd connection.

Both technologies have redundancy. In the case of FDDI, the light is turned into electrons for processing, and turned back into light to pass data to the next station.

In both technologies the interfaces at each station control where to send the data-- along to the next station, or back along the redundant path because of a break in the connections.

Now, of course, most systems using fiber link back to a central router/switch. Router/switches have enough computing power to re-route connections, and, I believe, handle loss of connections with redundant or alternate paths.

 

[RumRunner]

Well, if you don't like Token Ring, how about an FDDI ring. This is fiber-- and a true ring topology-- each station in the ring connects to the next station; no central hub.

Token Ring and. Fiber Distributed Data Interface (FDDI) Networks: Token Ring and FDDI 1 - PDF Free Download

Token Ring and Fiber Distributed Data Interface (FDDI) Networks: Token Ring and FDDI 1 IEEE Token Ring Proposed in 1969 and initially referred to as a Newhall ring. Token ring :: a number of stations

docplayer.net

FDDI is built much like Token Ring-- a token is passed around the ring. Each station monitors the condition of the fiber connections in and out, and if a break is found in the connection, it short-circuits the ring, and passes data back to where it came from along a 2nd connection.

Both technologies have redundancy. In the case of FDDI, the light is turned into electrons for processing, and turned back into light to pass data to the next station.

In both technologies the interfaces at each station control where to send the data-- along to the next station, or back along the redundant path because of a break in the connections.

Now, of course, most systems using fiber link back to a central router/switch. Router/switches have enough computing power to re-route connections, and, I believe, handle loss of connections with redundant or alternate paths.

It's not that I don't like Token Ring. I even like Onion Rings.

I appreciate your tenacity.

All along this discussion, you haven't said anything about your credentials.
Are you an IT professional ?
If not, l suggest you go back to school and take Computer Science so you can engage in a challenging exchange.
Come back after graduation and start an intelligent discussion, and thereby, free yourself from the stranglehold of Professor Google.
Have good day.

Auf weidersehen

 

[PaulMmn]

Professor Google is a handy shortcut for finding diagrams &c.

I'm an IT professional, more than 30 years in the trade. I'm currently security officer on my company's iSeries (Power) systems, multiple LPARs on a Power 8 system, with V9000 storage, replicating to a 2nd installation in an 'undisclosed location.' Over the years I've used Twinax, FDDI, Ethernet, SNA/SDLC, a piece or two of Token Ring, and probably a few other means of communicating.

So when I speak of how Token Ring works, and FDDI, I speak from experience, not from Google. When I speak about a 'hub,' that includes routers and switches-- they all tend to hang out at a central location, and talk to everything else. I know that Routers/Switches do more than forward packets-- they are computers that just happen to have a lot of connections to other things.

Aloha!

 

[tom baker]

Here are some practical suggestions you can use:
A patch panel is use to to connect multi fiber cable, say 6 or 12 count, to a jumper that goes to you switch.
Between your equipment cabinets, you can run jumper cable (think zip cord), they can be ordered preterminated which is what I recommend.
The jumper cable is pretty tough, but it may be best to run in 1" emt or orange smurf tube. Enter in the bottom of the cabients.
The advantage of a 6 or 12 count fiber is you have spares. A fiber circuit typically takes 2 fibers. Again I would recommend preterminated fiber, just measure and call Graybar Electric. The cables have nice pulling heads on them easy to pull in but limit the bends please in the conduit.
If you use a jumper you don't need a patch panel, the jumper will plug into your switch/router.
There are three types of connectors, ST, SC and LC. What you use depends on what you using it with.
There are two different types of fiber, mulitmode and single mode. Multimode is fine inside a building, single mode is for long distances. And multimode media convertors are less expensive.

Since you mentioned a ring, thats where you go from one panel to the next and back to the start. A ring takes a ring controller, as if all the cabinets are all connected in a ring the system won't work. A ring controller looks for a break and then routes the enet packets the other way,

There are many types of routers/switches. I prefer Rockwell Automation Stratix. Some of them are managed and have a lot of nice features, plus inside they are base on Cisco, which makes the IT folks happy. the startix is designed to mount in a control panel in DIN rail and is industrial rated. Most are 24 VDC

There is lots of good information at the Rockwell automation site and you should be able to get someone to help you, but I don't think Rockwell makes a ring controller. this encludes sample lay out drawings, etc.

Sixnet and Ntron are two companies that make industrial switches routers. N Tron got bought by Red Lion, I am not a big Red Lion fan, but go to there web pages and look under solutions, https://www.redlion.net/n-tron .

I would call N tron and get some one to help you with product applications.

You need to determine
type of fiber, cable or jumper
multimode or single mode
type of connector
type of switch/router