Finding a New Wiring Path

[Little Bill]

I have a textbook example of not following code or having someone do the work that will. I'm working on a house and HO came to me with a problem unrelated to what I am doing. She is having a breaker trip when using her hairdryer. Turns out there is 2 bathrooms, a bedroom and a den/family room on one circuit. I checked the circuit with loads on that were said to be on when the breaker tripped. It is pulling 18-21A. I'm not sure if I had everything on but that was enough for me to see it was an overloading problem. I definitely need to pull at least 2 new circuits. The problem is the areas that need the circuits have no overhead space or crawl space since it is on a slab. Other than ripping stapled ceiling tile out or running cable in Wire Mold, anyone got any experienced, saged advise on how to run these new circuits? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[sd4524]

One of those problems that you need to be there and look at. I'm not sure how much help anybody can give you.
Remove recess lights, speakers in ceiling and use the holes?
closets?
conduit on roof?
conduit on side of building
Any circuits not being used?- dryer 30 amp?
Use existing wiring as a pull?
hvac soffits?
remove baseboard and cut holes in drywall?
ditto for crown molding?
I have done all of these and have also just used a hammer on ceiling to open up plaster!
Good luck. After figuring out a method tell the homeowner it is the only way possible to do the job and act like you do it all of the time

 

[WIMaster]

sd4254 Has some very good advice there.
I would try to avoid conduit on the roof though, but it may be the best option.
Especially telling them that it is the only way.
If you give them options you will wish you had not! I have made that huge mistake before.

 

[jaylectricity]

Can you find out if the bathrooms are at the beginning or end of the circuit? Maybe just one new feed can do the trick. If bathrooms are at beginning, you can refeed the first outlet after that, or if they are at the end you can feed the first of the bathrooms.

Are you ruling out making holes in their walls? Although some people balk at the idea, when given no choice they will let you do it. Just be neat about the holes, try to cut them over studs, strapping, and/or joist so they'll be easier to fill. I use a lightweight spackle like "Patch n Paint" to fill in the holes afterward.

I've returned to houses years later to find that the small white squares on their walls are still there. The homeowners never noticed them enough to care about painting the wall or ceiling.

 

[jmellc]

No attic space at all? I've seen very few houses like that. Even mobile homes usually have a little space. I've fished wire 30-40 feet with rods that way. I have put EMT or PVC on an outside wall to destination and through wall to room. Even more important to wire it right the 1st time if space is that hard to access.

 

[ptonsparky]

Use a box knife and remove a tile or two. Change blades often if needed but just cut them out at the joint. fish your wires as needed. Nails from a plastic staple will hold them back in place. Put the same tile in the hole you cut it from. Wash you hands or you will leave finger prints all over them.

The impossible only takes longer.

 

[masterinbama]

Fish them in the soffit until you get to a joist bay. This is easier in vinyl soffit. In solid plywood soffit I pull the attic vent grills and have even added my own when needed.

 

[Little Bill]

Thanks to all the replies. The house is old and an addition was added. The space, I'm assuming, in the ceiling is just the space between the metal roof and the ceiling tiles. I don't know what size the rafters are, there is no ceiling lights in the addition other than the bathrooms. When I finish what I'm currently doing, I will tackle the new circuits with the advise given here. I don't think I like old houses, especially with add ons and hacked up wiring!

 

[ptonsparky]

If they are willing to pay, like those jobs all the way to the bank. Even more frustrating is sitting home.

 

[bumperlt]

No attic space at all? I've seen very few houses like that. Even mobile homes usually have a little space. I've fished wire 30-40 feet with rods that way. I have put EMT or PVC on an outside wall to destination and through wall to room. Even more important to wire it right the 1st time if space is that hard to access.

I only know the pacific northwest building styles, but no attic is very common here. Bottom floor of split levels (which have no crawl either), vaulted cielings, apatments, condos..

I'd say 50% the time around here there isn't an attic to work with.

 

[kwired]

I'm willing to bet if you ran one new circuit to wherever the hair dryer gets used there will be no more trouble with overloading. At one time this installation would not have been a code violation. Now the bathroom must be separate from the the other receptacles mentioned.

 

[jmellc]

I only know the pacific northwest building styles, but no attic is very common here. Bottom floor of split levels (which have no crawl either), vaulted cielings, apatments, condos..

I'd say 50% the time around here there isn't an attic to work with.

That's rough. We need to all put our heads together with our carpenter friends & come up with practical ways to have future access. People reinvent houses all the time nowadays & they are sold more often to new owners. Maybe some sort of chase, lined up closet to closet down the length of a house, in line with the panel? in 2 story houses, how about a chase from attic to crawl space? We send people to the moon; we should be able to improve a house, right?

I get irritated with panels on outside walls of a garage with no attic space. All ckts up & over, then closed up forever. Sometimes we have no choice but that shows no foresight at all.

 

[Little Bill]

I'm willing to bet if you ran one new circuit to wherever the hair dryer gets used there will be no more trouble with overloading. At one time this installation would not have been a code violation. Now the bathroom must be separate from the the other receptacles mentioned.

Your most likely right. I checked the circuit from no load to adding things one at a time. When the hair dryer was turned on it raised the amp draw by around 13A.

 

[readydave8]

That's rough. We need to all put our heads together with our carpenter friends & come up with practical ways to have future access. People reinvent houses all the time nowadays & they are sold more often to new owners. Maybe some sort of chase, lined up closet to closet down the length of a house, in line with the panel? in 2 story houses, how about a chase from attic to crawl space? We send people to the moon; we should be able to improve a house, right?

I get irritated with panels on outside walls of a garage with no attic space. All ckts up & over, then closed up forever. Sometimes we have no choice but that shows no foresight at all.

I have no carpenter friends and so usually leave empty conduits from panel to accessable spaces, and sometimes empty conduits from crawl space to attic, if anyone asks what its for I say for radon.

 

[kwired]

I have no carpenter friends and so usually leave empty conduits from panel to accessable spaces, and sometimes empty conduits from crawl space to attic, if anyone asks what its for I say for radon.

Done that many times myself. Or request removable wall panel to allow access for future.

 

[jmellc]

I have no carpenter friends and so usually leave empty conduits from panel to accessable spaces, and sometimes empty conduits from crawl space to attic, if anyone asks what its for I say for radon.

I've done the spare conduits too, and spares up & down, landed in boxes & marked.

 

[jmellc]

I would have done conduits on this job, but the panel was partially over a sill in the crawl space, would have been too hard to drill out holes large enough for conduits. Usually easier to put a few large conduits & push the runs up through them than to start each run w/romex cntr, work all of them a few inches at a time, etc.

 

[jmellc]

Done that many times myself. Or request removable wall panel to allow access for future.

That's excellent when customer will let you do it. The older I get, the more I hate fighting walls, crosspieces, nails, etc.