Fire alarm conduit bends

[Electromatic]

Are conduits for fire alarm (or I suppose other low voltage) cables limited to the 360-degree bend rule?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Yes, 760.3(J) sends you to 300.17.

 

[ron]

760.3(L) says to install cable routing assemblies in accordance with 800.110(C)
800.110(C) sends you to 800.113, which then in turn has a circular reference back to 800.110.
800.110(A)(1) says to install raceways in accordance with the requirements of Chapter 3.
For example 358.26 takes care of it for EMT.

 

[ron]

Yes, 760.3(J) sends you to 300.17.

I wish it was so straight forward. 300.17 is just number and size of conductors in raceway, not number of bends in raceway.

 

[gadfly56]

Are conduits for fire alarm (or I suppose other low voltage) cables limited to the 360-degree bend rule?

It would appear not, as 760 says article 300 doesn't apply except where specifically called out in 760, and I couldn't spot anything on the 360-degree rule in 760.

EDIT: Spoke too soon. I see ron's reply sends you back to 300, in a very roundabout way.

 

[gadfly56]

I wish it was so straight forward. 300.17 is just number and size of conductors in raceway, not number of bends in raceway.

Not only that, but 300.17 sends you straight back to 760 via the informational note, with no useful information in between:

300.17 Number and Size of Conductors in Raceway. The number and size of conductors in any raceway shall not be more than will permit dissipation of the heat and ready installa‐ tion or withdrawal of the conductors without damage to the conductors or to their insulation.

Informational Note: See the following sections of this Code: intermediate metal conduit, 342.22; rigid metal conduit, 344.22; flexible metal conduit, 348.22; liquidtight flexible metal conduit, 350.22; PVC conduit, 352.22; HDPE conduit, 353.22; RTRC, 355.22; liquidtight nonmetallic flexible conduit, 356.22; electrical metallic tubing, 358.22; flexible metallic tubing, 360.22; electrical nonmetallic tubing, 362.22; cellular concrete floor raceways, 372.22; cellular metal floor raceways, 374.22; metal wireways, 376.22; nonmetallic wireways, 378.22; surface metal raceways, 386.22; surface nonmetallic raceways, 388.22; underfloor raceways, 390.6; fixture wire, 402.7; theaters, 520.6; signs, 600.31(C); elevators, 620.33; audio signal processing, amplification, and reproduction equipment, 640.23(A) and 640.24; Class 1, Class 2, and Class 3 circuits, Article 725; fire alarm circuits, Article 760; and optical fiber cables and raceways, Article 770.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I wish it was so straight forward. 300.17 is just number and size of conductors in raceway, not number of bends in raceway.

Sorry, I did not correctly read the question in the original post.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The real question is "are raceways installed for use with a Chapter 7 installation required to be installed in accordance with the raceway Article found in Chapter 3.

Per 90.3, the raceway rules in Chapter 3 will apply to a raceway installed for a Chapter 7 installation, unless the Chapter 7 article specifically modifies the Chapter 3 article. The xxx.26 section in all of the Chapter 3 raceway articles limit you to a maximum of 360° of bend between pull points.

 

[ron]

The real question is "are raceways installed for use with a Chapter 7 installation required to be installed in accordance with the raceway Article found in Chapter 3.

Per 90.3, the raceway rules in Chapter 3 will apply to a raceway installed for a Chapter 7 installation, unless the Chapter 7 article specifically modifies the Chapter 3 article. The xxx.26 section in all of the Chapter 3 raceway articles limit you to a maximum of 360° of bend between pull points.

Unfortunately 760.3 says that only those sections of Article 300 referenced in 760 shall apply to fire alarm systems.

 

[gadfly56]

Unfortunately 760.3 says that only those sections of Article 300 referenced in 760 shall apply to fire alarm systems.

The tedious part is that the process chains together multiple references; 760.3(L) > 800.110(C) > 800.113 >800.110(A)(1). It's supposed to be a code, not an invitation to a snipe hunt.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Unfortunately 760.3 says that only those sections of Article 300 referenced in 760 shall apply to fire alarm systems.

The rule in 760.3 only says the rules in Article 300 that are referenced apply. It does not say that the rules in Chapter 3 do not apply unless referenced.

The 360 degree of bend rules are not in Article 300. We would be looking to rules in 342.26. 344.26, and 358.26, or any other raceway xxx.26 section.

 

[gadfly56]

The rule in 760.3 only says the rules in Article 300 that are referenced apply. It does not say that the rules in Chapter 3 do not apply unless referenced.

The 360 degree of bend rules are not in Article 300. We would be looking to rules in 342.26. 344.26, and 358.26, or any other raceway xxx.26 section.

Ahhh, someone I know might have been using "article" and "chapter" interchangeably.

 

[ron]

The rule in 760.3 only says the rules in Article 300 that are referenced apply. It does not say that the rules in Chapter 3 do not apply unless referenced.

The 360 degree of bend rules are not in Article 300. We would be looking to rules in 342.26. 344.26, and 358.26, or any other raceway xxx.26 section.

Well done. I definitely mixed / messed up the terminology of Article 300 and thinking it applied to all of Chapter 3. Article 300 is only those sections 300.XX.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Well done. I definitely mixed / messed up the terminology of Article 300 and thinking it applied to all of Chapter 3. Article 300 is only those sections 300.XX.

I have done that exact same thing in the past