Fire alarm in 3 floor sprinkled office building.

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Joel P

Joel P

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Washington Seattle area
I reciently took on a trim out of a fire system from a company that went out of business, and upon looking over thier plans they had it for a non sprinkler system. Well this is a sprinkled building so I will need to go through a plan review to update it.

Now as a new business owner I am figuring out the whole process (Trial by Fire:) as I go and i have been told that I dont need the pull stations that were specified nor the smoke detectors since this is a class B building with sprinklers. What are the facts with this? I was looking through the NFPA72 and was having trouble identifying what they are referring to.

I do know that I will need to add flow, tamper and an elevator recall to the system. non of which were added before. I also have a door system with a crash bar and battery back up.

Any help is appreciated.

thanks,

Joel
 
Joel,
The requirements are found in the locally adopted building code.
Generally B occupancies do not require an automatic fire alarm system, but be sure to check the requirements for the height of the building.
 
Fire alarm in 3 floor sprinkled office building.

It is very important to have a good fire management system in the building as it is a very crucial hazard that we can deal with.the artitechtural side has to be very planned and organized in this.
 
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Fire alarm in 3 floor sprinkled office building.

The standards to be met are real high and ensures safety.
 
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Are the plans stamped/approved by the AHJ? If, so install that. It would be more devices, but so what? The code is the minimum and the more life safety the better. If, you make money making a place safer, good!!!

Also, ask the AHJ if they have specific requirements you may not know about, if they are not reviewed, approved plans.
 
I agree with the above. the money you spend in redesigning the system and aggravation with the county would just as well be spent in a few additional devices, put it in per plans, get it inspected, get paid and get out. (unless its a large amout of money in savings you are talking about)
 
International Fire Code, which is the model code adopted in most jurisdictions in the United States requires only fire sprinkler monitoring in a "B", or business, occupancy. This is not considered a fire alarm system. A single pull station located at the fire riser is required as well as a horn in a common area (main lobby). A smoke detector is always required above the fire alarm control panel.

Another factor is the occupant load. If there are more than 100 occupants on floors above or below the ground floor or more than 500 total the building must have a full evacuation (notification) system.

These are the minimum requirements. I agree with the others, install what's been accepted by the AHJ.
 
Verify the code of record.....if the jurisdiction has adopted the 2007 edition of NFPA 72, a smoke is not required above the panel if the building is fully sprinklered. NFPA 72 4.4.5 exception # 2.
 
Thanks to everyone for thier help with this. This is a great board!

The local AHJ did sign off on the original plans which is why I thought it would be an easy in and out like mentioned above, but on the first page is stated that it was for a non sprinkled system and that if it were to change then they would need to see the revisions.

On the alarm plans since it is for a non sprinkled system it does not show the flow, tamper, or elevator recall. This will all have to be noted on the new plans for them to sign off on them again. I also found out yesterday that the wire for each floors sprinkler flows were not run. This could be an issue unless I scrap a pull station on each floor and use the wire for them. (Because the builder started putting sheet rock up on the walls before I came on to this job. )

I have to agree with all of your thoughts that saftey is number one, and that installing most of everything that was on the original will be the way to go.

Joel
 
Joel P said:
Thanks to everyone for thier help with this. This is a great board!

The local AHJ did sign off on the original plans which is why I thought it would be an easy in and out like mentioned above, but on the first page is stated that it was for a non sprinkled system and that if it were to change then they would need to see the revisions.

On the alarm plans since it is for a non sprinkled system it does not show the flow, tamper, or elevator recall. This will all have to be noted on the new plans for them to sign off on them again. I also found out yesterday that the wire for each floors sprinkler flows were not run. This could be an issue unless I scrap a pull station on each floor and use the wire for them. (Because the builder started putting sheet rock up on the walls before I came on to this job. )

I have to agree with all of your thoughts that saftey is number one, and that installing most of everything that was on the original will be the way to go.

Joel
Click to expand...

still learning a lot about fire alarm systems, but if I am correct, you don't have to scrap a pull station, just use an addressable system with a FDM for the tamper and flow on each level.

Definately get the plans re-reviewed if there are any changes or things that were missed the first time. Call the inspector up and meet him about the issues.
 
Your thought got my brain working again..... I can't use an addressable since it was wired with about five home runs that dont loop back. But.... Duh for me, I can just loop the flows into one of those legs. The tampers are a little trickier since they will need to be supervisory. Hmm... i'll have to think about it some more. Kind of back to scraping a pull if I dont need all of them anyway.

Any thoughts?

Joel
 
I can't use an addressable since it was wired with about five home runs that don't loop back.
Click to expand...

Ah, but that's the beauty of an addressable system - it doesn't matter how it's wired (as long as your not required to have "Class A" wiring - where you have to loop back) as long as you can get to the junctions.

You can t tap splice and connect just about anywhere, and you only need two conductors...

So yes, you could make it work!

Jim
 
I am definately looking into that then. I wanted to use an addressable system to begin with but was told that it was wired for conventional and it wouldnt work without the loopback.

The T taps you mentioned I have heard of to protect yourself from hacks that could cause electricical issues, but obviously I dont fully understand what they are doing. Could you explain how they work (Simply) I imagine that it is telling the FACP that it is the end of line or somthing to that effect. Is that close?

Thanks

Joel
 
Nope, T Tapping is a type of splice connection basically meaning you can start out and have a run to say a smoke then on to another one (all splices are to be accessible and in a suitable box). You just connect the reds to the reds, blacks to the blacks.

When "t tapping" you could bring another wire (from another device or loop of devices) to that same junction and connect the same way following the color code and wiring in parallel - that’s t tapping.

Now just to clarify, that’s for your smokes, pull stations, sprinkler flows/tampers or other "initiating devices".

"Notification devices" like your horn's/strobe's etc require a single wire from the panel all the way to the last device (some panels come with 2 NAC circuits onboard or can have expanders added for more "loops") and an EOLR (end of line resistor) must be placed at the last device on that loop. You cant T Tap the NAC loop.

Hope this helps...

Jim
 
So basically you dont need to find the end of the line you just t tap anywhere (in a box) that you want along the way. Then if class A wiring is not needed you dont need the loopback. Did I understand it right?
 
sorry for my haste and erroneous response earlier - of course you need a redesign to include the flows and tampers ! (I wasn't thinking), as well as a redesigned annunciator.
 
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