Fire Alarm Panel

[Designer69]

I have a transformer sprinkler system.

Need to install a new local Notifier panel which apparently powers/communicates with local devices.
There is a also a remote panel (with relays) which actuates a deluge valve.

Question is... is there somewhere in NFPA 72 or wherever that gives reqmts for placement of the notifier panel? Some people are saying something about a minimum 20' between notifier panel and remote (deluge actuation) panel.

not sure where to look for these requirements, any help is much appreciated. Not a fire alarm guy so sorry for vague question

 

[mgookin]

A modern fire alarm system includes an addressable fire alarm control panel (FACP) and it has the dialer to notify the monitoring company as well as the circuits for the notification appliances (horns, strobes, etc.). Deluge control may initiate from there as well. I've never heard of a requirement for deluge controls to be remote but don't take that to mean anything. The local AHJ has authority to prescribe the location of the FACP and they may want signage directing them to the FACP if it is other than immediately at the main entrance to the facility.
Call the fire marshal's office for the jurisdiction in which the project is located.

 

[Designer69]

I've never heard of a requirement for deluge controls to be remote but don't take that to mean anything.

thanks. have you heard anything about a 20 ft minimum between FACP and deluge controls panel?

I don't think that exists but someone was saying something about that.

there is the following statement in NFPA 72 but I don't know if it means anything:

"4.4.7.1.8 Monitoring for integrity shall not be required for
the interconnection between enclosures containing control
equipment located within 6 m (20 ft) of each other where the
conductors are installed in conduit or equivalently protected
against mechanical injury."

 

[gadfly56]

If the new NotiFire panel is a building panel it can go anywhere subject to only a few restrictions. It should be in a secure location or kept locked and it should be in a conditioned space. Frequently you find them in electrical rooms or by the phone service entrance. Unless it's a local requirement or the environment is not suitable, there is no need to separate the panels by any distance. If you are going to have an unsupervised connection of some kind between the panels they must be no more than 20 feet apart and the connection must be in a metallic raceway.

You will need to provide outputs from the deluge panel for alarm, supervisory, and trouble conditions to the new NotiFire panel. Typically this is done via relay outputs on the deluge panel and addressable input modules on the new panel's signal line circuit (SLC).

 

[gadfly56]

thanks. have you heard anything about a 20 ft minimum between FACP and deluge controls panel?

I don't think that exists but someone was saying something about that.

there is the following statement in NFPA 72 but I don't know if it means anything:

"4.4.7.1.8 Monitoring for integrity shall not be required for
the interconnection between enclosures containing control
equipment located within 6 m (20 ft) of each other where the
conductors are installed in conduit or equivalently protected
against mechanical injury."

This is what I was talking about in my first paragraph.

 

[Designer69]

If the new NotiFire panel is a building panel it can go anywhere subject to only a few restrictions. It should be in a secure location or kept locked and it should be in a conditioned space. Frequently you find them in electrical rooms or by the phone service entrance. Unless it's a local requirement or the environment is not suitable, there is no need to separate the panels by any distance. If you are going to have an unsupervised connection of some kind between the panels they must be no more than 20 feet apart and the connection must be in a metallic raceway.

You will need to provide outputs from the deluge panel for alarm, supervisory, and trouble conditions to the new NotiFire panel. Typically this is done via relay outputs on the deluge panel and addressable input modules on the new panel's signal line circuit (SLC).

ah very helpful thanks. Then I believe that's where the 20 ft comes from because I believe this is an unsupervised installation.

Last question... What exactly is meant by "unsupervised connection" or "Monitoring for integrity"?

thanks

 

[gadfly56]

ah very helpful thanks. Then I believe that's where the 20 ft comes from because I believe this is an unsupervised installation.

Last question... What exactly is meant by "unsupervised connection" or "Monitoring for integrity"?

thanks

Fire alarm control panels monitor their circuits for integrity. Conventional panels, if wired Class B, will have an end-of-line device, typically a resistor, installed across the circuit conductors at the last device for the indicating device circuit (IDC) which is for pull stations, smoke detectors, heat detectors etc, and also at the end of the notification appliance circuits (NAC) which is for horns, strobes, chimes, etc. If there is a break in the wire you get a trouble at the panel.

Addressable panels are like little servers and the SLC loop has all the alarm devices on it. The have unique identifiers and run a proprietary communication protocol and if one stops reporting the panel reports a trouble. For the NAC's they operate as conventional panels with an end-of-line device.

If you make a connection between panels where a break in the connection does not cause a trouble at one or the other panel, that connection is "unsupervised" or "unmonitored".

Please do not take this the wrong way, but these concepts are fundamental to fire alarm system design. If you are not familiar with them you should ask someone in your company who is more experienced in fire alarms to help you. If there is no one else in your company with experience and if you are having the panel installed by a subcontractor, see if they will do the design for you. For suitable compensation, of course. Also, be sure they are an authorized distributor for NotiFire.