Fire Alarm Questions from a Noob

[JOHNEO99]

Hi

Well my company has taken on a job to finish off some townhomes that were started by someone else then the company went bankrupt. They are 4-unit buildings with your standard track home quality.

Well these units have a fire alrm system in them and I am supposed to figure out what system to install and how to wire it. This is new to me as I have never wired one of these systems but did take a two week class about 12 years ago...lol.

All the wiring is done in low volt wire. There is a main panel in the end unit garage. Each unit of the four have miscellaneous heat, smoke, strobe/horn openings throughout. Each unit also has a 3-gang box at the front door which I am assuming is an annunciator.

So my question is how would you go about figuring out what system was planned here and will I be able to get this done? I have spoken with the fire marshall who has no drawings and really only told me the required devices in different locations which I didnt find all to helpful.

 

[JOHNEO99]

Am I posting this in the right forum?

 

[480sparky]

First thing is to determine if it's wired for an addressable or a non-addressable system. Then, if it's Class A or Class B.

Am I posting this in the right forum?

Maybe in the Low voltage and Limited energy forum? PM the mods if you want it moved there.

 

[quogueelectric]

Hi

Well my company has taken on a job to finish off some townhomes that were started by someone else then the company went bankrupt. They are 4-unit buildings with your standard track home quality.

Well these units have a fire alrm system in them and I am supposed to figure out what system to install and how to wire it. This is new to me as I have never wired one of these systems but did take a two week class about 12 years ago...lol.

All the wiring is done in low volt wire. There is a main panel in the end unit garage. Each unit of the four have miscellaneous heat, smoke, strobe/horn openings throughout. Each unit also has a 3-gang box at the front door which I am assuming is an annunciator.

So my question is how would you go about figuring out what system was planned here and will I be able to get this done? I have spoken with the fire marshall who has no drawings and really only told me the required devices in different locations which I didnt find all to helpful.

The first thing to do is to contact the local fa contractors and try to see which one had plans for and or submited a price for this job and have them bid on the completion.

 

[goldstar]

I'm not looking to put the "Whammy" on this but if you have to ask what type of system this is then you're already in over your head. The liability for this seemingly simple job could be greater than what the job itself is worth. I would do as Quog suggested and find a reliable FA contractor to help you through this. If we start throwing terms out like "addressable/non-addressable, class A/class B" it's all going to be Greek to you anyway until you get your feet wet.

FYI, the AFAA has a forum that discusses fire alarms. Perhaps you could log onto that site and get more accurate info. In any case you'll have to provide more info than you have thus far.

 

[JOHNEO99]

I'm not looking to put the "Whammy" on this but if you have to ask what type of system this is then you're already in over your head. The liability for this seemingly simple job could be greater than what the job itself is worth. I would do as Quog suggested and find a reliable FA contractor to help you through this. If we start throwing terms out like "addressable/non-addressable, class A/class B" it's all going to be Greek to you anyway until you get your feet wet.

FYI, the AFAA has a forum that discusses fire alarms. Perhaps you could log onto that site and get more accurate info. In any case you'll have to provide more info than you have thus far.

Thank sir. I would say I am a bit over my head but I already know what class A and B systems are and addressable vs. non. I did take a 4 day class on FA but it has been awhile. We wired all the initiating devices, appliances etc. We also wired a control panel with eol resisters and it seemed really simple tbh.

That being said, this system is already wired and only needs to be terminated and tested. It wont pass until it is approved.

I have a guy from our company who has a ton of experience in FA coming
out to look at this wiring.

I really wanted a better hu on this topic but speculation on this site just isnt what it used to be.

 

[JOHNEO99]

The first thing to do is to contact the local fa contractors and try to see which one had plans for and or submited a price for this job and have them bid on the completion.

We as a company tried to do that and then went to the municipality to get the drawings but there are none and the company that did the wiring is out of business and gone.

 

[goldstar]

John,

I didn't mean to come across so smug in my response. I have over 20 years of experience in the fire alarm trade, 10 of which were in NYC. While there are always new things to be learned, there aren't too many things that I don't already know about FA systems. So, when you posted comments like these :

Well these units have a fire alrm system in them and I am supposed to figure out what system to install and how to wire it.

This is new to me as I have never wired one of these systems but did take a two week class about 12 years ago...lol.

So my question is how would you go about figuring out what system was planned here and will I be able to get this done?

my intent was only to give warning to a novice. Different areas of the country require different levels of competency. I believe in the state of NJ you are required to be a registered alarm service company or a licensed electrical contractor (experienced in FA systems) to work on FA systems. In NYC you are required to be NICET level II certified to work on FA systems.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is if you're not sure about what you're doing, once you touch this system, if anything goes wrong - you own it. That's where the liability comes in. So. I'm just trying to look out for you in advance. Otherwise, if you have any specific questions I would be happy to answer them to the best of my ability or, at the very least, point you in the right direction.

I really wanted a better hu on this topic but speculation on this site just isnt what it used to be.

BTW, you'll find that most of the subscribers here in the forum that have fire alarm experience are quite knowledgeable.

 

[JOHNEO99]

I wasnt taking u the wrong way. Well I traced all the wiring down and drew an as built drawing. Its a really simple layout.

Anyone know a good program for drawing "as builts" ?

 

[Fulthrotl]

I wasnt taking u the wrong way. Well I traced all the wiring down and drew an as built drawing. Its a really simple layout.

Anyone know a good program for drawing "as builts" ?

autocad....

sounds like all you need to do at this point, is find out what systems are on
the fire marshals approved list, see which of those will work with the wiring
installed, and go shopping. address the devices, trim it out, power it up and
call for inspection..

for commercial stuff, the last fire alarm i did was a hospital 10 years ago,
and it was all addressable, and pretty straightforward.... simplex system.
however, i had the luxury of having to submit drawings for oshpod approval,
so i drew what i was going to install, instead of something drawn by a computer
geek in an office, so *magically* my asbuilts matched the approved drawings,
and i was able to turn my asbuilts in the day after the fire marshal signed off
the hospital.

 

[JOHNEO99]

autocad is a bit much for me but tyvm.

I will try something cheaper...like free.

 

[Fulthrotl]

autocad is a bit much for me but tyvm.

I will try something cheaper...like free.

well, you can look at designcad.... it'll read and write acad files,
and it's fifty bucks or so.....

i just figured there were some drawings of this building you could
get a hold of, and edit....

 

[JOHNEO99]

No these drawings are no where to be found niether the vilage or fire marshall has them.

I just got done scanning my drawing I will post soon.

 

[quogueelectric]

We as a company tried to do that and then went to the municipality to get the drawings but there are none and the company that did the wiring is out of business and gone.

There MUST have been a fire alarm vendor who sold a system along with designed drawings for an ec to install.do you have the credentials to design a system from scratch and cover liability for such an install?