Fire pump conductors

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faresos

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If we are taping from the utility transformer or from the main switchboard (ahead of the main overcurrent protection device); do we need to provide an equipment grounding conductor or do we need to pull a neutral instead for fire pump application. As you know, for main service we do not pull equipment grounding conductor per the utility company request.

Thanks in advance.

Sam
 
faresos said:
If we are taping from the utility transformer or from the main switchboard (ahead of the main overcurrent protection device); do we need to provide an equipment grounding conductor . . .
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No, in either case, these are service conductors and you will install a main bonding jumper in the service equipment (I assume that will be a SUSE fire pump controller). :smile:
 
charlie said:
No, in either case, these are service conductors and you will install a main bonding jumper in the service equipment (I assume that will be a SUSE fire pump controller). :smile:
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No, in either case, these are service conductors and you will install a main bonding jumper in the service equipment (I assume that will be a SUSE fire pump controller).

Charlie-

Does that mean I still need to pull the grounded conductor (neutral) since I still need to install a main bonding jumper in the service equipment?

Thanks,
 
faresos said:
Does that mean I still need to pull the grounded conductor (neutral) since I still need to install a main bonding jumper in the service equipment?

Thanks,
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faresos you only need to pull the grounded conductor. It's requirement for routing and size can be found in article 250.24(C)1,2,3.

Rick
 
faresos said:
. . . Does that mean I still need to pull the grounded conductor . . .
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Yes, it is required by 250.24(C):

250.24(C) Grounded Conductor Brought to Service Equipment. Where an ac system operating at less than 1000 volts is grounded at any point, the grounded conductor(s) shall be run to each service disconnecting means and shall be connected to each disconnecting means grounded conductor(s) terminal or bus. A main bonding jumper shall connect the grounded conductor(s) to each service disconnecting means enclosure. The grounded conductor(s) shall be installed in accordance with 250.24(C)(1) through (C)(3).

:smile:
 
You mention possibly tapping off in the main switch board before the main disconnect. Keep in mind 695.3(A)1 which will not permit you to connect within the same cabinet, enclosure, or vertical switchboard section as the service disconnecting means.
 
tommy said:
Would it be wrong to install the grounding conductor or just not needed
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If you install a grounding conductor, it would likely be in violation of 310.4. Besides, it is just not needed. If you are installing the service directly from the transformer and I am your electric utility person, I would prohibit your grounding conductor in my transformer. Additionally, I would not even permit metallic conduit to enter my pad mounted equipment. And that is the way our Goldbook is written. :)
 
tommy said:
What about in a separate tap section of a switchboard and what does 310-4 have to do with a grounding conductor?
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A separate tap section is fine as long as you comply with 695.3(A)(1) which will not permit you to connect within the same cabinet, enclosure, or vertical switchboard section as the service disconnecting means as RICK NAPIER has already indicated.

If you install a grounding conductor, it will be in parallel with the neutral because you are required to install a main bonding jumper in the fire pump service equipment. Now you have paralleled the grounding conductor and the neutral conductor. You are then required to meet the requirements of 310.4. It is best to just leave the grounding conductor out of the equation.

Tell my why you are so insistent on installing a grounding conductor to the fire pump service? Would you ever install a grounding conductor from the serving electric utility to your service equipment? :)
 
Remember that per 695.6 (A) these are service conductors and must be physically routed outside the building until entering the room with the fire pump controller. This might help make up your mind on which connection point to choose.
 
Charlie where can I find that you need to bond the service disconnect for a fire pump? If I start at 695.3 (A)1. I think it say's seperate service or connection ahead of main then I go to 230-82(5) for that tap,230.2 for label,230.72(B) for location. At 230-82 (5) only requires to meet service entrance conductors 230-40 exception 5 takes me to 230-82(5) and 230-82(6). Also routing to the outside does that apply to 695.3 (A)1 ?
 
Perhaps this will help. A fire pump service is just that, a service, albeit a special one. Since you are connecting in front of the normal service disconnecting means, you are installing service entrance conductors and not a feeder to the fire pump. In general, all of the conductors and switches are sized no differently than for any other motor until you get to the overcurrent protection. You may install short circuit and ground fault protection but not overload protection. The fire pump controller provides a modicum of overload protection. If the fire pump controller is SUSE (suitable for use as service equipment) rated, you don't need to provide short circuit and ground fault protection. However, since this is service equipment, you are require to provide a main bonding jumper. You can spend all day looking up code references but you already know the answers if you look at the big picture. :smile:
 
695-3 (1) says separate service or or connection ahead of main and comply with 230-82 (5) where it does not mention to bond like 230-82 (2)
 
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