fire pump coordination study requirement

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anbm

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High rise building or hospital facility - The fire pump controller / ATS is fed out of utility transformer (normal power feed) and main emergency distribution panel (emergency power feed).

Main emergency distribution panel is fed from emergency generator.

Will the breaker (inside main emergency panel) serving fire pump and generator's main breaker need to be coordinated per NEC?

695.3(C)(3) won't apply to this case, I assume? Thank you.
 
anbm said:
High rise building or hospital facility - The fire pump controller / ATS is fed out of utility transformer (normal power feed) and main emergency distribution panel (emergency power feed).

Main emergency distribution panel is fed from emergency generator.

Will the breaker (inside main emergency panel) serving fire pump and generator's main breaker need to be coordinated per NEC?

695.3(C)(3) won't apply to this case, I assume? Thank you.
Click to expand...

The fire pump ATS should be fed by a tap between the emergency generator and the emergency panel, not from the emergency panel. You can use disconnecting means, but mind the restrictions.
 
gadfly56 said:
The fire pump ATS should be fed by a tap between the emergency generator and the emergency panel, not from the emergency panel. You can use disconnecting means, but mind the restrictions.
Click to expand...

Which code prevents feed fire pump’s ATS from
main emergency panel?
 
ron said:
Most would consider 695.4 and needing to carry locked rotor difficult to feed it from a panel. Usually we need to feed it from a dedicated breaker at the generator.
Click to expand...

The any OCPDs between the Generator and the fire pump controller don't need to carry locked rotor current indefinitely.
 
david luchini said:
I'm thinking 700.10(B)(5)(c) would prevent that.
Click to expand...
David, That was my initial response, but the Definition of an Emergency System in 700.2 doesn't come out and say that a Fire Pump belongs there.

I went to the IBC to see if they listed a fire pump as requiring an Emergency Power System in 2702.2. I also looked at the IFC.

Then I got stuck finding the requirement in 695 if the utility is not considered "reliable" as an individual source, but again doesn't direct the reader to 700 or 701.
 
david luchini said:
I'm thinking 700.10(B)(5)(c) would prevent that.
Click to expand...

If main emergency panel is built with seperate vertical section for fp breaker,
I think this will be allowed... However, my question is whether fp breaker needs
to be coordinated with its upstream cb or generator main cb.
 
ron said:
David, That was my initial response, but the Definition of an Emergency System in 700.2 doesn't come out and say that a Fire Pump belongs there.

I went to the IBC to see if they listed a fire pump as requiring an Emergency Power System in 2702.2. I also looked at the IFC.

Then I got stuck finding the requirement in 695 if the utility is not considered "reliable" as an individual source, but again doesn't direct the reader to 700 or 701.
Click to expand...

Article 695 specifically talks about using a "Standby Generator" as a source. As such, the Fire Pump is not an emergency load, and cannot originate in the same panelboard as emergency circuits.
 
david luchini said:
Article 695 specifically talks about using a "Standby Generator" as a source. As such, the Fire Pump is not an emergency load, and cannot originate in the same panelboard as emergency circuits.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I'm so used to people trying to call non-emergency loads Emergency loads, and you were saying that it wasn't, which is why it couldn't cohabitate with the "emergency distribution panel (emergency power feed)". My error.

That is the reason. The Fire Pump is not a 700 load and can't mix with an Emergency Dist Panel which by its name IS a Article 700 load panel.
 
anbm said:
If main emergency panel is built with seperate vertical section for fp breaker,
I think this will be allowed... However, my question is whether fp breaker needs
to be coordinated with its upstream cb or generator main cb.
Click to expand...

If you are on 2014, not so much:

695.4(B)(3)(a)(3)
Not be located within the same enclosure, panelboard,
switchboard, switchgear, or motor control center, with
or without common bus, that supplies loads other than
the fire pump.
 
Got it, if fp ats is fed from a dedicated enclosed
breaker (seperate from emergency dist panel) downstream of generator’s main cb, are
these two breakers need to be coordinated? Which section
of code prevents this installation? or the standby circuit feeds
fire pump ats must be tapped at generator main bus?
 
gadfly56 said:
If you are on 2014, not so much:

695.4(B)(3)(a)(3)
Not be located within the same enclosure, panelboard,
switchboard, switchgear, or motor control center, with
or without common bus, that supplies loads other than
the fire pump.
Click to expand...

The breaker in my question belongs to 695.4(B)(3)(b)
 
anbm said:
The breaker in my question belongs to 695.4(B)(3)(b)
Click to expand...

I see your point, I was apparently confused as to which power source was in question. I have to believe that if you had an emergency power panel/switch gear, the same requirements would apply, but they didn't actually put that in writing.
 
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