Fire pump new church bldg

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I have new church building from scratch. Does the fire pump have to be installed or can it be installed in future after building is constructed per NEC 2014 or IBC 2015?

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codequestion said:
I have new church building from scratch. Does the fire pump have to be installed or can it be installed in future after building is constructed per NEC 2014 or IBC 2015?

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Usually people install a fire pump because the water supply is not adequate for the sprinkler demand. Unless this is phased construction, with a few years between phases, they'll need the fire pump from day one. The need for the pump has to be determined by the fire protection engineer or contractor. They are not a trivial cost; you could easily be north of $45,000 for one.
 
gadfly56 said:
Usually people install a fire pump because the water supply is not adequate for the sprinkler demand. Unless this is phased construction, with a few years between phases, they'll need the fire pump from day one. The need for the pump has to be determined by the fire protection engineer or contractor. They are not a trivial cost; you could easily be north of $45,000 for one.
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Which code determines need for fire oump nec or ibc?

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Fire Pump requirement

Fire Pump requirement

I would need to look at the IBC Occupant Assemblies. The codes I have tested on NFPA 20 and ASTM E119 seem to ring a bell. One might be downloadable the other will cost to obtain.

However like previous post mentioned there is a gradient of 'available water supply' which the AHJ can help you with. Additionally NFPA 72 is a good start and further NFPA 13.

Then dry pipe or wet systems depending on the type of actuation and temperatures between the buildings and supply. Also the AHJ can help you with the fire department location on property where their connections need to be and the drive up radius turn spacing for access to the facilities.
 
codequestion said:
Which code determines need for fire oump nec or ibc?

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Neither one, actually. The IBC will generally tell you if sprinklers are required. If this is still in the planning stage, you need a PE with fire protection experience to run the numbers for you as the AHJ will certainly look for proof that the water supply is adequate for the sprinkler design (per NFPA 13). If a fire pump is required, then NFPA 70 and NFPA 20 will come into play as to the "how".

Note that the type of construction, size of the assembly space, different occupancies served and whether there are fire-rated separation between them all affect the sprinkler system design and the resultant demand.
 
zbang said:
If there are going to be sprinklers, wouldn't it be easy to ask the sprinkler contractor or designer?
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It is something of a chicken-and-egg problem. You won't know the demand until you do the design and after the design is complete will you know if you need a fire pump. A fire pump can be a project killer depending on the overall budget.

If the project has water available in the street it's relatively simple to calculate the available water supply; one day's worth of time for an engineer. If the tract is located away from a reasonably sized water main (~10"), things get very complicated very quickly.
 
Height of the building and size of the sprinkler pipes will have an effect.

For example, we had an entire 3 story building with the sprinkler system designed without a fire pump.

But the contractor installed a fire pump (with engineering approval) so the piping sizes could be reduced. So the entire system was basically redesigned with a pump.

But I believe city water pressure will only push water up so high. So one a building hits some height, a fire pump is probably a necessity no matter what size the pipes are.
 
NEC or IBC

NEC or IBC

The contrast between professional and technical advise given is +1 from an experience point of looking into the building materials of construction, setting fire zones, size of incoming service (KW or KVA).

There possibly are steps to consider in planning. The OP is certainly most acquainted with his responsibility. Just for a moment the AHJ wants his first responders to have access to the communications, building premesis, required energy shutoff, fire panel zone ID, elevators, standpipes (when required). Other municipalities granted by law.

Careful zoning as we know under multiple fires at different location history has taught us 12 sprinklers with good performance based delivery will ensure his fire station safety. The incident commander will know tactically measures required. The idea of a stragetic planning installation initiative guarantees a vast sum of responsive actions including Central Service monitoring.
 
Just curious NEC_ADDICTED. Are you a natural born English speaker. Sometimes what you say is kind of hard to follow and does not make much sense, like what you just said. It is like you think in a different language and try to translate it to English.
 
steve66 said:
Height of the building and size of the sprinkler pipes will have an effect.

For example, we had an entire 3 story building with the sprinkler system designed without a fire pump.

But the contractor installed a fire pump (with engineering approval) so the piping sizes could be reduced. So the entire system was basically redesigned with a pump.

But I believe city water pressure will only push water up so high. So one a building hits some height, a fire pump is probably a necessity no matter what size the pipes are.
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If you have 100 psi in the street off a 12" main, you're pretty good for most small commercial projects.

The rule of thumb for building height is 0.5 psi per foot. With 100 psi in the street you could go 35 feet and have 65 psi left over (which you'll need for your stand pipe). More height or less pressure and you need a pump. Which, by the way, is going to be limited to 175 psi as that's the max design pressure for sprinkler systems, unless you are using pressure reducing floor assemblies. But I see my audience is starting to nod off, so I'm going to stop here.
 
petersonra said:
Just curious NEC_ADDICTED. Are you a natural born English speaker. Sometimes what you say is kind of hard to follow and does not make much sense, like what you just said. It is like you think in a different language and try to translate it to English.
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My guess is you are actually referring to a text note 'written' not 'spoken'.

So who is on the hook for proper English?
 
nec_addicted said:
My guess is you are actually referring to a text note 'written' not 'spoken'.

So who is on the hook for proper English?
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It has become common vernacular here to refer to such things as being "spoken". You have to understand from context that it is actually an email or a text message or a forum post or some other informal written communication.
 
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