Fire pump service location

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marcb

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I was looking for some feed back about the location for a fire pump service. The jurisditction I work for views all fire pumps as part of an emergency system. Since these are part of an emegency system the service location must comply with NEC 700.12(D). We require a seperate service for all fire pumps. My question is 700.12(D) states that the service shall be "widely seperated electrically and physically from the normal service to minimize the possible of simultaneous interruption of supply". How far is "widely"? What are some of the requirements in your jurisditctions?
 
Fire pumps

Fire pumps

It depends. Perhaps if one were an astronaut, widely seperated would be pretty wide. Or if I was the size of Rosie Odonnell.
 
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Since fire pumps are normally located in a rated room separate from other building elements, that would typically qualify as "separated". Anyone seeking to disconnect power would have to go to the fire pump room to disconnect the controller there. Any service disconnect that was installed ahead of the fire pump controller (1 is permitted) is required to be supervised to guard against accidental interruption of supply.

Of course, if the normal supply and the fire pump supply both originate at the same utility transformer and someone opens the primary, you have no fire pump. That's where a diesel back-up is handy to have. This would be a rare occurance however. I have spoken with many fire officials and AHJ's and the concensus is that fire companies will not attempt to open a utility primary supply in the event of a fire.

Hope this helps answer the question.
 
My question is not about the fire pump controller or the fire pump it's self. I am trying to find out what "widely seperated" means. How apart shall the SERVICE for the normal power and the fire pump SERVICE be seperated. Does WIDELY mean 1' or 100'. Should the fire pump SERVICE be located in a 1HR rated room? Would that qualify as widely seperated. I don't care about the fire pump or the controller or how it is wired and I know that a diesel would get rid of this problem.
 
Hi March,
Welcome to MH's forum. When getting a permit or just doing a takeoff, check with the Fire Marshall requirement for your project. They all vary. I have seen fire control feeders in the House meter combo panel (with lockout) next to the main center disconnect, usually a couple feet away. The firecontrol room or area can be on a back-to-back configuration with the pumps, valves, notifier, detectors all in a group with baseboard heating to control temp environment.
Have seen the control room located at the other end of the building from the Fire control disconnect meter panel. If it's high rise, the master illuminated locator panel is on ground floor with pump-valve control nearby. The disconnect will be in the meter center location normally. Hope this helps.
 
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marcb said:
My question is not about the fire pump controller or the fire pump it's self. I am trying to find out what "widely seperated" means.
Click to expand...

Sorry. I guess I gave you more than you asked for and still didn't answer your question.

700.12(D) in the 2002 Code states: "(D) Separate Service. Where acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction as suitable for use as an emergency source, a second service shall be permitted. This service shall be in accordance with Article 230, with separate service drop or lateral, widely separated electrically and physically from the normal service to minimize the possibility of simultaneous interruption of supply."

This was modified for the 2005 cycle to read, in part " ...sufficiently remote electrically and physically from any other service conductors to minimize the possibility of simultaneous interruption of supply."

IMO, if the fire pump and controller were located in a separate room, this would qualify as "sufficiently remote electrically and physically".

Your mileage may vary. Consult your AHJ for the final say.

Once again, hope that helped.
 
Thanks for the reply. I am the AHJ here. What I am trying to find out is how other jurisditions define "widely seperated". Here in Sacramento we require the fire pump service be located away from the normal service by locating it in a 1hr rated room if it is located next to the normal power service or install the fire pump service outside of the electrical room. The Fire department in Sacramento deems all fire pumps as an emergency system here so they must provide a seperate service or a diesel driven pump. A second service is usually cheaper than a diesel. Sometimes if a fire pump house is built this is not a problem but at the big box stores in order to save room they like to put both services next to each other. So then my question comes up again. I dont belive that a 1hr rated room is what they mean by widely seperated. The Chief electrical inspector here agrees. Is 1' seperation good enough since they are seperate enclosures. This sounds good to me What do you think.
 
Marcb,

"is one foot of seperation enough" IMO noway, that would be too easy to

confuse for the 'normal power' and get shut off by accident. That's the

whole point of sufficiently remote, I would have to say that a 1hr. rated

room with just the Fire Pump equipment/service etc. stands a much better

chance of remaining energized during a caotic shut down .

I agree entirely with Brad.
 
Marcb,
The two foot away House meter main I mentioned was a split bus with lockout. No confusion if qualified personnel have the key. As far as xfmr shutdown that remains a good question to the provider allowances.
 
I called the NFPA and asked them the same question. I asked if the fire pump service and the building service can be in the same electrical room, he said yes. As long as it's not in the same enclosure. What are you trying to accomplish by putting it in a 1 hour room? Who dreamed this up? What code is that?
 
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