FIRE PUMP WIRING

[medinajuli]

Good morning, I am in the process of designing the wiring to a fire pump room in a condominium, my inspector specifies that I must have conduit (EMT, IMC, RMC) from outside to the fire pump control panel (FPCP) resistant to 2 hours inside the fire pump room. Is this possible? What does UL say about it? Thanks for your time.

 

[infinity]

A conduit alone will not give you a two hour fire rating. There are two hour wiring methods like Vitalink MC cable that are run without conduit.

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[gadfly56]

It isn't clear the demarc you intended, but the 2-hour rating is required only into the fire pump room. You can use standard wiring methods inside the room, which should have 2-hour rated walls, floor, and ceiling.

695.6(A)(2)(d)
...
Exception to (A)(2)(d): The supply conductors located in the electrical
equipment room where they originate and in the fire pump room shall
not be required to have the minimum 2-hour fire separation or fire
resistance rating, unless otherwise required by 700.10(D) of this Code.

 

[medinajuli]

I understand but see attached of handbook. =/
So these kinds of things create tremendous confusion for me.

 

[augie47]

What part do you find confusing ?
The supply conductors must be "outside" or have 2 hr protection except for those conductors actually locatd inside the fire pump room.

 

[Charged]

Can someone explain basically what the process/product is using a “wrap” to accomplish the required 2 hour rating is ? It may be beneficial to the the op as well.

That being said what do you prefer , the wrap as I’m calling it before it gets corrected or using the 2hr rated Mc cable or MI cable.

 

[texie]

Good morning, I am in the process of designing the wiring to a fire pump room in a condominium, my inspector specifies that I must have conduit (EMT, IMC, RMC) from outside to the fire pump control panel (FPCP) resistant to 2 hours inside the fire pump room. Is this possible? What does UL say about it? Thanks for your time.

The NEC was fairly recently (forgot what edition) to make clear that the conductors WITHIN the fire pump room do not need 2 hour protection. Keep in mind, however, that there are certain other requirements for conductors/raceways within the room.
Also note that in most garden variety installs the preferred method is to run the supply conductors directly under ground to the fire pump room to avoid all the issues with running through the protected premises. Granted, sometimes this is not always possible and 2 hour methods are needed.

 

[medinajuli]

My confusion is, about the requirement of the fire resistance of the cable and conduit when you have feeders in sight in the electrical room, from the source, either a generator or the electrical operator to the control panel. is it possible to use conduit PVC? for example?. Tks for your time =).

 

[gadfly56]

Can someone explain basically what the process/product is using a “wrap” to accomplish the required 2 hour rating is ? It may be beneficial to the the op as well.

That being said what do you prefer , the wrap as I’m calling it before it gets corrected or using the 2hr rated Mc cable or MI cable.

The "wrap" method is a UL listed system using listed components from some manufacturer like Hilti or 3M. It is very labor intensive, and depending on field conditions it might be very difficult to provide the necessary coverage. You are much better putting in VitaLink or some similar cabling product. MI is probably overkill for this application.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/201500O/3m-interam-endothermic-mat-e-5a-4-technical-data-sheet.pdf

 

[infinity]

IMO unless absolutely necessary forget the wrap method. You can use a 2 hour fire rated enclosure built out of drywall around the raceway to achieve the 2 hour rating. Vitalink would be my suggestion.

 

[medinajuli]

 

[augie47]

 

[JoeStillman]

If the rooms are adjacent as in Case III, then nothing needs the 2-hour rating as mentioned above. But you can't use PVC between the controller and the pump. See 695.6(D).

 

[Strathead]

What part do you find confusing ?
The supply conductors must be "outside" or have 2 hr protection except for those conductors actually locatd inside the fire pump room.

I disagree. Perhaps that is what the NEC intends, but that isn't what it says. That exception is to (A)(2)(d) which is FEEDERS. Service conductors aren't feeders and are still required to remain outside the building or protected by 2 hour rating by the wording of the code.

 

[medinajuli]

I thank all your contributions, but then, for each case shown, do we need a two-hour fire test? Before and after the control panel of the fire pump.
I understand that if it is in sight and comes from another room, it would need to be fireproof for 2 hours, if it comes with a specific drink, it would not be necessary, as shown in case 1.

 

[gadfly56]

I disagree. Perhaps that is what the NEC intends, but that isn't what it says. That exception is to (A)(2)(d) which is FEEDERS. Service conductors aren't feeders and are still required to remain outside the building or protected by 2 hour rating by the wording of the code.

The exception, however, uses the phrase "supply conductors" which is the heading for part (A) under 695.6 "Power Wiring". That suggests to me that the exception is meant to apply to all of part (A), whether service conductors or feeder conductors.

 

[Strathead]

The exception, however, uses the phrase "supply conductors" which is the heading for part (A) under 695.6 "Power Wiring". That suggests to me that the exception is meant to apply to all of part (A), whether service conductors or feeder conductors.

It specifically states it is applicable to (A)(2)(d). What part of that leads you to conclude it applies to all of A?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

It specifically states it is applicable to (A)(2)(d). What part of that leads you to conclude it applies to all of A?

Yes, that is how the 2017 code reads. They fixed that in the 2020 code with an additional exception that follows (A)(1)

 

[RumRunner]

Good morning, I am in the process of designing the wiring to a fire pump room in a condominium, my inspector specifies that I must have conduit (EMT, IMC, RMC) from outside to the fire pump control panel (FPCP) resistant to 2 hours inside the fire pump room. Is this possible? What does UL say about it? Thanks for your time.

You are involved in a project that requires more (important) details that may not be completely available in this forum.
It is good to have some general ideas on how the project must be carried out.

You claim that AHJ specifies what materials are needed.
Compliance officers (AHJ) are not designers. It is the engineer’s job to decide which are appropriate. For the real accredited engineer’s years of training-- those engineers that have gone- through-- and the knowledge they possess far exceeds those of inspectors, electricians and handymen.
With the NEC book at their disposal it would be a big mistake to be shackled to the (sometimes) restrictive provisions of the NEC.

A lot of instances the NEC make electricians look like a bunch of “know nothings” cadre of doofus.
The NEC is the minimum requirement.
Check this site for a more rational argument:

https://www.csemag.com/articles/supplying-power-for-electric-fire-pumps/

An excerpt from the website above.

“…..Electrically powered fire pumps are subject to many national and international codes such as the International Building Code (IBC), NFPA 5000: Building Construction and Safety Code, NFPA 101: Life Safety Code, NFPA 110: Standard for Emergency and Standby Systems, NFPA 20: Standard for Installation of Stationary Pumps for Fire Protection, and NFPA Because so many codes are involved, it is important to understand the scope of each code to ensure the correct code is used during the design process.. . . . “

Note: If there is a Fire Marshall in your community--that would be the best place to consult before the deasgn goes in earnest.