Fire pump

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
I have High rise that has diesel fire pump and its fuel storage tank is fed from fuel oil pump 2hp 208V 3 phase.

Both the fuel tank and fuel pump are in loading room inside the high rise.

Questions:

1. Does the fuel oil pump need to be on emergency branch or standby branch? Which in in high rise. Also what NEC 2017 section this is in?

2. Is the area where diesel fuel storage tank and the fuel pump considered hazardous or not? Which class and div?
 
Last edited:
T

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
NEC Article 695 will only cover some of the particulars for the engine controller and wiring. You need to consult NFPA 20 for fuel related equipment. And probably NFPA 30 for fuel storage.
 
H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
texie said:
NEC Article 695 will only cover some of the particulars for the engine controller and wiring. You need to consult NFPA 20 for fuel related equipment. And probably NFPA 30 for fuel storage.
Click to expand...

Should the fuel pump be on emergency or standby branch its in high rise? Also where in 695 is diesel driven fire pump addressed?
 
T

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
There is not much on engine driven FP in the NEC. Mostly in 695.12. The fuel pumps will need E power but you need to consult NFPA 20 for exactly the how's and where's of fuel supply equipment.
 
tom baker

tom baker

First Chief Moderator & NEC Expert
Staff member
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Occupation
Master Electrician
Fuel pump, check art 700
Diesel fire pump, art 695 see scope, and NFPA 20
I'll give you the answer to diesel fuel, its not classified, but again check NFPA 30
 
H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
texie said:
There is not much on engine driven FP in the NEC. Mostly in 695.12. The fuel pumps will need E power but you need to consult NFPA 20 for exactly the how's and where's of fuel supply equipment.
Click to expand...

Thanks i didnt know 695 had engine driven controller some of it.

Where is the need for E power coming from? Which code?
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
hhsting said:
Should the fuel pump be on emergency or standby branch its in high rise? Also where in 695 is diesel driven fire pump addressed?
Click to expand...
If the fire pump can't run without the fuel pump active, then it should be on a 700 system, not 701. I have usually seen gravity tanks used

You will need to go to NFPA 20 for the skinny on diesel fire pumps.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I am not sure that NFPA 20 permits an electric fuel pump to supply fuel to a fire pump.

Diesel is typically a combustible liquid and not a
 
T

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
You're beating a dead horse here. As I and others said you need to consult NFPSA 20. Been a long time since I did a diesel FP but as Don said, I also am not sure that NFPA even permits a remote tank with an electric pump.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
My understanding is that you need at least a 12 hour fuel supply in a tank that has its outlet not lower than the fuel intake port on the pump.
If the local tank has that amount of fuel and the pump would just be for refilling that local tank, it would not have any special requirements.
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
don_resqcapt19 said:
My understanding is that you need at least a 12 hour fuel supply in a tank that has its outlet not lower than the fuel intake port on the pump.
If the local tank has that amount of fuel and the pump would just be for refilling that local tank, it would not have any special requirements.
Click to expand...
11.4.2.1* Fuel supply tank(s) shall have a capacity at least
equal to 1 gal per hp (5.07 L per kW), plus 5 percent volume
for expansion and 5 percent volume for sump
A.11.4.2 The quantity 1 gal per hp (5.07 L per kW) is equiva-
lent to 1 pint per hp (0.634 L per kW) per hour for 8 hours.
Where prompt replenishment of fuel supply is unlikely, a re-
serve supply should be provided along with facilities for trans-
fer to the main tanks.

11.4.3.3 The supply tank shall be located so the fuel supply
pipe connection to the engine is no lower than the level of the
engine fuel transfer pump.
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
hhsting said:
Thanks Tom.

I understand Fire Pump also a motor has different rules so I thought rules might be different for fire pump fuel pump disconnect
Click to expand...
Diesel fire pumps have the fuel pump built in, which runs to the fuel tank. What you are talking about is an auxiliary pump designed to fill the supply tank from another source. The primary tank for the fire pump still needs to meet the requirements of NFPA 20 (see above), but the auxiliary tank and pump might be a moveable feast depending on the specific requirements of the installation and what the AHJ thinks is necessary.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top