Fire Pumps

[hhsting]

I have odd situation. Incoming FEEDER is feeding 480/277V switchgear 2000 amps with main breaker of 2000 amps. On the line side of the 2000 amps main breaker I have a tap and this tap would be feeder tap since incoming conductors are feeders not service conductors. The tap is feeding fire pump approximately 100 feet away that has disconnecting means and fire pump controller.

Now the question becomes since these are feeder taps one disconnecting means needs to be provided with overcurrent protection within 25 feet. However, NEC 2014 695.4(B)(1) says one disconnecting means shall be provided with overcurrent protection devices shall be permitted installed between fire pump power sources and fire pump controller. Also I don't see NEC 2014 695.3(A) fire pump shall be fed by feeder taps. Is their anything in NEC 2014 that would not allow me to feeder tap fire pumps?

 

[gadfly56]

I have odd situation. Incoming FEEDER is feeding 480/277V switchgear 2000 amps with main breaker of 2000 amps. On the line side of the 2000 amps main breaker I have a tap and this tap would be feeder tap since incoming conductors are feeders not service conductors. The tap is feeding fire pump approximately 100 feet away that has disconnecting means and fire pump controller.

Now the question becomes since these are feeder taps one disconnecting means needs to be provided with overcurrent protection within 25 feet. However, NEC 2014 695.4(B)(1) says one disconnecting means shall be provided with overcurrent protection devices shall be permitted installed between fire pump power sources and fire pump controller. Also I don't see NEC 2014 695.3(A) fire pump shall be fed by feeder taps. Is their anything in NEC 2014 that would not allow me to feeder tap fire pumps?

Conductors feeding a fire pump are considered to be service, not feeder. That's why your supposed to run them on the outside of the building or protect them with 2 inches of concrete or brick if run on the inside. You can also use an approved fire protection assembly or MI cable, or something like VitaLink.

 

[infinity]

Since when can you feed a fire pump with a feeder tap?

 

[texie]

I have odd situation. Incoming FEEDER is feeding 480/277V switchgear 2000 amps with main breaker of 2000 amps. On the line side of the 2000 amps main breaker I have a tap and this tap would be feeder tap since incoming conductors are feeders not service conductors. The tap is feeding fire pump approximately 100 feet away that has disconnecting means and fire pump controller.

Now the question becomes since these are feeder taps one disconnecting means needs to be provided with overcurrent protection within 25 feet. However, NEC 2014 695.4(B)(1) says one disconnecting means shall be provided with overcurrent protection devices shall be permitted installed between fire pump power sources and fire pump controller. Also I don't see NEC 2014 695.3(A) fire pump shall be fed by feeder taps. Is their anything in NEC 2014 that would not allow me to feeder tap fire pumps?

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you have an overcurrent device ahead of this 2000 amp gear and thus it is a feeder. If that is the case this is not a compliant design for a fire pump supply.

 

[hhsting]

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you have an overcurrent device ahead of this 2000 amp gear and thus it is a feeder. If that is the case this is not a compliant design for a fire pump supply.

Ok little bit different if feeder taps are not allowed. In the case i have incoming electric utility to primary of customer owned transformer 13.2kv to 480/277v secondary, which would be code compliant #1 or #2?

#1: The customer owned transformer secondary feeders go to switchboard but on the line side of the switchboard main breaker their is a tap to fire pump. Is this only allowed for main service breaker or can it be any main breaker?

#2: Two secondary feeders originate at customer owned transformer secondary. First feeder goes to switchboard and second feeder to the fire pump but secondary conductor tap rules would come into play so would have to place breaker within 25 feet. I would have two disconnects one from secondary tap rule and second from fire controller integral disconnect. Would secondary tap rule apply to fire pump?



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[packersparky]

Ok little bit different if feeder taps are not allowed. In the case i have incoming electric utility to primary of customer owned transformer 13.2kv to 480/277v secondary, which would be code compliant #1 or #2?

#1: The customer owned transformer secondary feeders go to switchboard but on the line side of the switchboard main breaker their is a tap to fire pump. Is this only allowed for main service breaker or can it be any main breaker?

#2: Two secondary feeders originate at customer owned transformer secondary. First feeder goes to switchboard and second feeder to the fire pump but secondary conductor tap rules would come into play so would have to place breaker within 25 feet. I would have two disconnects one from secondary tap rule and second from fire controller integral disconnect. Would secondary tap rule apply to fire pump?



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#1: Connection has to be on the line side of the service disconnecting means. Connection has to be in a separate compartment of the gear.

#2: The conductors are not taps. They are service conductors since they do not have overcurrent protection ahead of them.

(1) Electric Utility Service Connection. A fire pump shall be
permitted to be supplied by a separate service, or from a
connection located ahead of and not within the same cabinet,
enclosure, vertical switchgear section, or vertical switchboard
section as the service disconnecting means. The connection
shall be located and arranged so as to minimize the possibility
of damage by fire from within the premises and from exposing
hazards. A tap ahead of the service disconnecting means shall
comply with 230.82(5). The service equipment shall comply
with the labeling requirements in 230.2 and the location
requirements in 230.72(B). [20:9.2.2(1)]


(3) Dedicated Feeder. A dedicated feeder shall be permitted
where it is derived from a service connection as described in
695.3(A)(1). [20:9.2.2(3)]

695.6 Power Wiring. Power circuits and wiring methods shall
comply with the requirements in 695.6(A) through (J), and as
permitted in 230.90(A), Exception No. 4; 230.94, Exception
No. 4; 240.13; 230.208; 240.4(A); and 430.31.
(A) Supply Conductors.
(1) Services and On-Site Power Production Facilities. Service
conductors and conductors supplied by on-site power production
facilities shall be physically routed outside a building(s)
and shall be installed as service-entrance conductors in accordance
with 230.6, 230.9, and Parts III and IV of Article 230.
Where supply conductors cannot be physically routed outside
of buildings, the conductors shall be permitted to be routed
through the building(s) where installed in accordance with
230.6(1) or (2).

 

[hhsting]

#1: Connection has to be on the line side of the service disconnecting means. Connection has to be in a separate compartment of the gear.

#2: The conductors are not taps. They are service conductors since they do not have overcurrent protection ahead of them.

(1) Electric Utility Service Connection. A fire pump shall be
permitted to be supplied by a separate service, or from a
connection located ahead of and not within the same cabinet,
enclosure, vertical switchgear section, or vertical switchboard
section as the service disconnecting means. The connection
shall be located and arranged so as to minimize the possibility
of damage by fire from within the premises and from exposing
hazards. A tap ahead of the service disconnecting means shall
comply with 230.82(5). The service equipment shall comply
with the labeling requirements in 230.2 and the location
requirements in 230.72(B). [20:9.2.2(1)]


(3) Dedicated Feeder. A dedicated feeder shall be permitted
where it is derived from a service connection as described in
695.3(A)(1). [20:9.2.2(3)]

695.6 Power Wiring. Power circuits and wiring methods shall
comply with the requirements in 695.6(A) through (J), and as
permitted in 230.90(A), Exception No. 4; 230.94, Exception
No. 4; 240.13; 230.208; 240.4(A); and 430.31.
(A) Supply Conductors.
(1) Services and On-Site Power Production Facilities. Service
conductors and conductors supplied by on-site power production
facilities shall be physically routed outside a building(s)
and shall be installed as service-entrance conductors in accordance
with 230.6, 230.9, and Parts III and IV of Article 230.
Where supply conductors cannot be physically routed outside
of buildings, the conductors shall be permitted to be routed
through the building(s) where installed in accordance with
230.6(1) or (2).

Both cases refer to customer owned transformer. Incoming utility is on primary. How does secondary 2 sets of conductors become service conductors if transformer is customer owned?

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[packersparky]

Both cases refer to customer owned transformer. Incoming utility is on primary. How does secondary 2 sets of conductors become service conductors if transformer is customer owned?

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I didn't see anywhere where you stated that the transformers were customer owned. You may have a multi-building campus style complex, in which case a fire pump might be allowed to be supplied by feeder in accordance with 695.3(C).

Edit: I see now that you indicated it was a feeder supplying the building.

 

[hhsting]

I didn't see anywhere where you stated that the transformers were customer owned. You may have a multi-building campus style complex, in which case a fire pump might be allowed to be supplied by feeder in accordance with 695.3(C).

Edit: I see now that you indicated it was a feeder supplying the building.

Do transformer secondary conductor rule apply to fire pump if tapped from secondary terminals?