Fire Rating- Cables

[mstrlucky74]

So attached show the two feeders. The start outside the building then go right into a non-sprinkler protected room where the fire alarm FADS and EMDP is. So it says we have to maintain 1 hour rating once in the room. Not sure there is an application to get the one hour rating. Could RGS and 1 hour rated RHW 2 hour rated cable suffice? Thanks.

 

[gadfly56]

So attached show the two feeders. The start outside the building then go right into a non-sprinkler protected room where the fire alarm FADS and EMDP is. So it says we have to maintain 1 hour rating once in the room. Not sure there is an application to get the one hour rating. Could RGS and 1 hour rated RHW 2 hour rated cable suffice? Thanks.

NYC is totally screwball. In a rational jurisdiction you could just use VitaLink and be done with it but it's not listed for installation in RMC. IIRC, the room the fire alarm equipment is in is supposed to be minimum 1-hr rated. If you come in from the outside, you are entering a rated room so you shouldn't need anything special. NYC AHJ's are not known for their ability to understand a logical argument, however. Good luck.

 

[mstrlucky74]

What would achieve 1 hour rating in NYC. Most of run is outside.. Just about 30' inside. Splice and change over to 1 hour rating cable? . Or just run rhw 2 hour all the way.

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[mstrlucky74]

Help here on this one, thanks.

 

[gadfly56]

What would achieve 1 hour rating in NYC. Most of run is outside.. Just about 30' inside. Splice and change over to 1 hour rating cable? . Or just run rhw 2 hour all the way.

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Actually, I'm going to back-track a bit. You've been saying "1-hr" and my brain is hearing "2-hr". VitaLink has a product called VitaLink 2000 that can be installed in metallic raceways with steel fittings that has a 1-hour rating.

http://www.r-scc.com/files/Catalog ...em/VO01 Vitalink 2000 Control-Power TC_r1.pdf

This should solve your problem.

 

[mstrlucky74]

Actually, I'm going to back-track a bit. You've been saying "1-hr" and my brain is hearing "2-hr". VitaLink has a product called VitaLink 2000 that can be installed in metallic raceways with steel fittings that has a 1-hour rating.

http://www.r-scc.com/files/Catalog ...em/VO01 Vitalink 2000 Control-Power TC_r1.pdf

This should solve your problem.

Thanks. Rhh 2 hour rated would also suffice correct?

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[gadfly56]

Thanks. Rhh 2 hour rated would also suffice correct?

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As long as it IS actually 2-hour rated and can be installed in RMC. That last bit, installed in RMC is why you can't use the 2-hour rated VITA-Link; it's an MC cable and, AFAIK, can't be run in RMC. RHH doesn't automatically mean any sort of fire rating.

 

[jumper]

As long as it IS actually 2-hour rated and can be installed in RMC. That last bit, installed in RMC is why you can't use the 2-hour rated VITA-Link; it's an MC cable and, AFAIK, can't be run in RMC. RHH doesn't automatically mean any sort of fire rating.

May I ask why one could not run that cable in RMC? Cables are generally allowed in raceways.

 

[gadfly56]

May I ask why one could not run that cable in RMC? Cables are generally allowed in raceways.

If you look at FHIT-120, installation in a raceway is not a listed method. Whatever is not permitted, is forbidden.

 

[jumper]

If you look at FHIT-120, installation in a raceway is not a listed method. Whatever is not permitted, is forbidden.

Let me rephrase. I am not familiar with this cable or its rules.

What reason is there not to run this cable in conduit?
What electrical problem would occcur?
Not asking about code here, but physics.

 

[topgone]

Let me rephrase. I am not familiar with this cable or its rules.

What reason is there not to run this cable in conduit?
What electrical problem would occcur?
Not asking about code here, but physics.

AFAIK, MC cables are not permitted: 1) where exposed to corrosive fumes and vapors -> the cable construction would allow vapors/fumes to eat the outer metal sheath and water will easily enter, 2) be directly buried in the earth --> perhaps a more intense investigation on the characteristics of the MC cable when directly buried would enlighten us here.

Beyond those, I don't know. There are people who think that MC cables can be used in corrosive environment if it is PVC jacketed and or can be laid buried if it is listed!

 

[jumper]

AFAIK, MC cables are not permitted: 1) where exposed to corrosive fumes and vapors -> the cable construction would eat the outer metal sheath and water will easily enter, 2) be directly buried in the earth --> perhaps a more intense investigation on the characteristics of the MC cable when directly buried would enlighten us here.

Beyond those, I don't know. There are people who think that MC cables can be used in corrosive environment if it is PVC jacketed and or can be laid buried if it is listed!

Um, RMC is allowed in those conditions and if the MC is inside the RMC......

 

[topgone]

Um, RMC is allowed in those conditions and if the MC is inside the RMC......

Methinks it's better to visit 330.12 to be sure.

 

[jumper]

Methinks it's better to visit 330.12 to be sure.

330.10(A)(7).....

If the raceway is approved and the cable is in the raceway.....

 

[gadfly56]

Let me rephrase. I am not familiar with this cable or its rules.

What reason is there not to run this cable in conduit?
What electrical problem would occcur?
Not asking about code here, but physics.

In order to provide the required protection, the silicon-rubber inner layer forms a char/solid layer under fire conditions. If I understand their installation procedure, the pulling tension necessary to get the cable through the RMC could damage this inner layer. In order to put it in cable tray, for example, they require you to hand lay it in or use a lot of rollers.

Actually, now that I look at it again, it seems you might be able to put it in a raceway, but you have to consult their engineers on that.

So, short story is, FHIT-120 does not include raceway, but you might still be able to do it.

 

[jumper]

In order to provide the required protection, the silicon-rubber inner layer forms a char/solid layer under fire conditions. If I understand their installation procedure, the pulling tension necessary to get the cable through the RMC could damage this inner layer. In order to put it in cable tray, for example, they require you to hand lay it in or use a lot of rollers.

Actually, now that I look at it again, it seems you might be able to put it in a raceway, but you have to consult their engineers on that.

So, short story is, FHIT-120 does not include raceway, but you might still be able to do it.

I did read up quickly on the subject and I agree. They definitely discourage conduit.