Fire related work

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arnettda

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I rewired a cabin because there was a fire there. The home owner is now in court and called today to ask me why I replaced all the wiring. A good portion of it needed to be replaced as It was exposed to high heat. The rest I replaced because In my opinion it needed to be. 110-11 talks about deterorating agents and high heat. Is there other code articles that I can reference that will back up my opinion of replacing everything? I am not in trouble.
And how do you describe things that are not up to todays codes but are still allowed because it was up to code when installed? And secondly now that I am rewiring everything I need to bring it up to code?
Thanks
 
If it is in your expert opinion that the wires are damaged beyond use and safety then you are ok.

Existing non- conforming may be what you are looking at. Usually what this means in the eye's of the AHJ is that it does not conform to todays standards but were conforming at the time the permit was pulled and original built. Most AHJ will not allow this to apply if the work was done after CO and without a permit if one was necessary.

By the By why is the owner in court?
 
Sierrasparky said:
If it is in your expert opinion that the wires are damaged beyond use and safety then you are ok.

Existing non- conforming may be what you are looking at. Usually what this means in the eye's of the AHJ is that it does not conform to todays standards but were conforming at the time the permit was pulled and original built. Most AHJ will not allow this to apply if the work was done after CO and without a permit if one was necessary.

By the By why is the owner in court?
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Thank you They are trying to get the insurance company to pay for there loss.
 
I have done many fire jobs. We always went in and had to bid a price first. If they bypassed that step i wish them luck.
I do agree often the wire in attics have been baked for an hour or 2. How much gets replaced is up to the electrician.
 
What happens is the owner tells you to go in and fix the house--not knowing just how labor intensive it is! It's nasty slow work because you need to investigate as you go. When the sky high bill comes in -- they run to the insurance company who are complaining about the cost! I have learnt to take pictures on any job like this --and any fire job pictures shows how nasty and everything looks bad!!! Drop a pile of photos on the desk and let them tell you what is good and what is bad !
 
If it was in conduit, you may have been able to meger the conductors, but that may take just as much time as just pulling new wire.

I went on a fire job awhile back to investigate for the insurance company, because the fire was in the attic of a two story house and the electrician was saying that the panel needed to be replaced.

When I got there to my surprise he was correct, as most of the plastic in it, including a couple of breakers, was melted. The only thing I could figure was that there was a spare 3/4 inch flex going into the attic and as the fire was looking for more air the heat sucked down through the flex.

Never assume.:)
 
arnettda said:
And how do you describe things that are not up to todays codes but are still allowed because it was up to code when installed?
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Are you talking about the so-called "grandfather rule"? Take a look at 80.9. It is in Annex H at the back of the 2008 NEC.
 
arnettda said:
The home owner is now in court and called today to ask me why I replaced all the wiring.
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"Because the cost of the wire is cheaper than the labor involved in troubleshooting a bunch of nasty heat, smoke, and water damaged romex. Not to mention, safer too." Just what I might say in such a situation. I do like the picture taking idea. Never hurts to provide first hand evidence of what exactly you were dealing with.
 
IMO, there is no way to tell, for sure, that any of the wiring is still 100% good for reuse.

It is all personal opinion and the only way to look the owner in the eye and say " You are

good to go now" is to rewire the building.
 
Most of the time around here. The electrical inspector and fire marshal will call for a full re-wire of the premises. The last one I heard about was a fire in an apartment building with four apartments two on bottom, two on top. Only one apartment burnt and the rest hardly had smoke damage. The electrical inspector still called for a full-re-wire.
 
I was doing fire jobs for one of the major disaster recovery companies. About the only thing that got done without waiting was for me to get temp power going so they could start drying out the place before mold started and if it had a pool get that back up running and we are talking within 48 hours. Pictures are a must so that we can rebuild what they had. Sometimes we would get the job of removing all the wires in the attic so that new trusses could be installed. It is the most filthy job you will likely ever get. If fire ,smoke and water damage was in more than one limited area you would be replacing all devices and fixtures. The chances are high the job will cost more than to wire new a new house of the same design. Each ahj has its own rules as to what is grandfathered in. If damage is about 60 % or more of its prefire value you likely will be bringing it to code.
 
I think the simplest, and most direct, answer to the question of why rewire the house is this: "So that I won't have to come back here and explain why I rewired the house after the next fire."
 
If you have a good relationship with the local fire marshal and building inspector I would imagine they would go to bat for you in such a situation.
 
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