FireBombs !

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landelectric

Member
Location
Colorado
Thirty years ago when I started in this Trade, I never would have imagined that the nations vast inventory of Primitive Electrical Wiring systems would still be in service in the twenty first century. Yet it is.

Knob/tube, BX/Rubber, Ridgid/Rubber, early NM
still carrying current in old dry wooden structures in citys all over America.

Many have updated Services and loadcenters and that is good but, seldom was the funky old wiring abandoned and replaced.

Why? We all know why, it's too damn hard to sell, too damn hard to do and, too damn hard to price profitably. "yes Mr. Customer, I'll be glad to re-wire your house, just have ALL your furniture put in storage, move into a Hotel and, tell me it's OK to demo all your interior walls" !

I've done a lot of them, but what a pain in the *** !! I've used all the tricks I can come up with, combinations of surface products like Wiremold and AC/MC, NM and EMT on exterior walls.
But it still blows !

It's hell on earth doing cut-ins on wooden lath/plaster walls, placing fan hangers over pianos and worrying about who's going to trip over the network of cords on the floor.

Everybody's looking the other way about all this old, dangerous wiring, Real Estate appraisers just look for 100 AMPS and call it good, and everybody else just goes along for the ride.

Re-wiring old houses (old VERY valuable houses)
is the gold mine of the future. It's an untapped and almost unlimited customer base for enterprising Electrical Contractors who might otherwise be hard up for work when (not if) the new construction market slows.

But convoluted floor plans, fancy door and window moldings, wallpaper with sentimental value and endless other obstacles stand in the way.

We can talk all day about how the knob & tube is OK if it's in good condition but lets be honest about it, these firebombs need new wiring. 60,80,100 or more years is long enough for wiring to be in service, let's all make some good money and start doing some real re-wiring.

But how ? We need new products and methods to make re-wiring practical. I see something like a Flat Conductor Cable or something, I don't know........ We need to go back to the drawing board and find a new way to re-wire.

Any ideas ??? :eek:

[ February 26, 2003, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: landelectric ]
 

mvannevel

Senior Member
Re: FireBombs !

For my first twenty years in the trade, we did a lot of "complete" rewires. But, this consisted of eliminating the exposed knob & tube wiring and leaving what was concealed within the walls and ceilings. Along with this, the house was brought up to current code standards, minimum number & spacing of recepts in rooms, small appliance circuits in the kitchens, and GFI's when they were required. This wasn't a perfect solution, but it was better than nothing. In fact, in that area of Indiana at the time (and still was as of when I left 2 yrs. ago), in order to upgrade the service on a home, it had to be brought up to current code standards. It was a moneymaker for us as contractors, and as an inspector, it brought good permit fees into the Building Department. You're 100% right when you talk about what a pain it is to do though. And, it's even harder to find electricians who want a steady diet of that sort of thing. Here in Michigan we let electricians put new 100 or 200 amp services into these homes without touching the rest of the wiring. If there are obvious hazards, I make them correct them, but there's plenty of bitching and complaining when I do. If I was still contracting, I don't think I'd do a service change unless I was taking care of the rest of the wiring in the house. You're right, the industry needs to explore new methods to make these rewires easier and more cost effective to do. If they were an easier sell, more of them would get done. Just my take...
 
Re: FireBombs !

In regards to knob and tube rewires being hard to sell “the times are a changing”. I recently had a customer whose insurance company refused to renew his homeowners insurance because there was knob and tube in his house. As insurance companies look for ways to rid themselves of high risk accounts electricians and plumbers will see many more old house upgrades.

Hopefully as the demand increases we will come up with new methods of dealing with the problems in these rewires. Maybe this form could start a thread, which would not go away, where we could post good ideals that we have used in rewires. I always like reading how someone solved a problem by using an unusual method or product. Then we can all say, “why didn’t I think of that?”
 

landelectric

Member
Location
Colorado
Re: FireBombs !

Terrific reply posts ! thanks. Yes I agree, this is a topic that should bring up a lot of good ideas for this often ignored market segment.

Eric Land

[ February 26, 2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: landelectric ]
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Re: FireBombs !

I would like to find the flexable 18' snake extintion shaft I use to use to drill between two floors. It looked like a over sized speedodometor cable that had a setscrew retainer for drill bits with cat whiskers to keep it in the middle of the wall on one end and a 1/2" six sided shank on the other. the shank had a hole in it to attach the new wire to as you could not pull it back or the cat whiskers would brake off they had there own bearing to keep it from spinning too. and the shank end had a rod coming back to the drill to keep the outer side of the cable from spining. it realy worked nice. but have not been able to find one in a long time.
 

landelectric

Member
Location
Colorado
Re: FireBombs !

Was it a Greenlee Divers-a-bit (might not be spelled correctly) Home Depo has 'em. I think I've seen a wisker thing like you describe. check for a greenlee web site ??
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
Re: FireBombs !

Eric

I agree with you.

The bad news is I can see no easy fix to this problem.

A well written letter to one of those 20/20 or 60 minutes programs might be a start???

I will not work on some older systems unless I can make the whole system safe.

Mike P.
 

hornetd

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician, Retired
Re: FireBombs !

One technique I came up with for a historic building was to replace the baseboards with the two compartment wire mold. I ran a pair of one inch greenfield raceways up the plumbing stack chase to feed them. All of the devices were installed in the raceway. The old base boards are nearly one inch thick and the plaster and lath behind them is 3/4" or so. That provides the space for the raceway and when you install cap molding on top of it very few people will notice it.
--
Tom
 

landelectric

Member
Location
Colorado
Re: FireBombs !

Yep, Wiremold and similar products are helpful.

The commercial style baseboard products from HUBBLE and others are useful.

Doors and passageways are a problem, low,damp crawlspaces are a problem, access to ceiling fixture locations on 1st. floor rooms is a problem, small or non-existant attics are a problem........

We need a better way.................
.............................A much better way.

Eric Land

[ February 27, 2003, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: landelectric ]
 
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