First commercial project questions

[relochris]

I've been a residential electrical contractor for a little over 2 years. I've done some commercial service work but have never done a new project. I've been selected to wire a new worship center. It's 2X4 construction with standard framed and rocked ceiling. I see no reason why I can't run romex but do the boxes have to be metallic? Also aside from emergency lighting and exit signs are there any requirements I'm overlooking. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

 

[nakulak]

"worship center" would likely be viewed by your ahj as assembly occupancy - nm wiring method not allowed. you should probably consult your ahj. 334.12 A 5

 

[relochris]

I think you're right. I guess I'll have to use MC. The plans are set to be approved next week so I'm trying to do as much research as I can before then. I'm sure I'll have plenty of time to speek with the ahj during the sawpole and service inspections, but I don't want to come off as a total newbie after 10 years in the trade. Thanks

 

[augie47]

Take a close look at 334.10 and 518.4. I think you will find, as Nakulak states, a lot of the decision will involve applicable Building Codes and the AHJ. If Romex is allowed be sure to keep 334.12(A)(2) in mind.

 

[relochris]

The ceilings will be standard framed rocked. It seems that the fire rating on the wall is going to determine whether or not I can use NM. Obviously the AHJ is going to be the most important factor.

 

[chris kennedy]

"worship center" would likely be viewed by your ahj as assembly occupancy

Clearly defined in the NEC.

518.1 Scope.

Except for the assembly occupancies explicitly covered by 520.1, this article covers all buildings or portions of buildings or structures designed or intended for the gathering together of 100 or more persons for such purposes as deliberation, worship, entertainment, eating, drinking, amusement, awaiting transportation, or similar purposes.

 

[relochris]

That is pretty clear. If the stipulation is "the gathering together of 100 or more persons" is not met I wonder what the classification would be. If this building is only intended for 50 people would it still be considered an assembly occupancy?

 

[cowboyjwc]

While you must use mc, you are only using it because it is considered an assembly, beyond that you may have some fire rating issues (corridors, area seperation walls, etc) that you need to be careful of.

Sorry I forgot, also you will have ADA requirements as far as outlet heights, switch heights, thermostats, etc.

 

[nakulak]

probably not, but your ahj might feel differently.

 

[relochris]

The design is very basic. A single open room on the first floor. 2 offices and a common area upstairs with bathroom facilities. Hopefully there won't be any strange issues. I think I'll consider it an assembly even if it's not designed to be that large.

 

[LarryFine]

The plans are set to be approved next week so I'm trying to do as much research as I can before then. I'm sure I'll have plenty of time to speek with the ahj during the sawpole and service inspections, but I don't want to come off as a total newbie after 10 years in the trade.

In my opinion, the best time to avoid the newbie look is to ask your questions as early in the process as you can, and don't be embarassed to ask anything you're less than 100% sure about.

Also, the plans of which you speak should either have these variables spelled out, or the engineers' contact info. These basic, yet very important details should have already been decided.

 

[relochris]

I'm picking up the plans tomorrow. I hope there is an engineered plan. The builder hasn't told me much about them. You're right. I shouldn't feel stupid about asking questions. Once I have the plans in my hand I'll be in a better position to as about the specifics. And hopefully the plan maker will be a good resource.

 

[cadpoint]

Where are the drawings? The church is doing themselves in, and might have created there own headaches... JMO

...I've been selected to wire a new worship center.

That means an assembly that means, depending on the size of worship center the requirements might
be way different than your thinking, and way more work might will required.

This creats requirements (if a large assembly) above X number of people that are covered directly and addressed by
our code what needs to be covered, applied, is based on building codes per the class of structre, assembly, building materials.

Your local AHJ will be more informative as to what truely required!

 

[relochris]

The drawing were done by a firm. I'll be getting them tomorrow. I'm just looking for helpful suggestions at this point. I'm sure the AHJ will have plenty to say about everything.

 

[LarryFine]

The drawing were done by a firm. I'll be getting them tomorrow.

I'm hoping you haven't submitted a price yet.

 

[relochris]

Thankfully I submitted a price when it was zoned residential. That was 2 months ago and now all pricing needs to be redone. This project is for a long time customer. I referred the job to a builder I've worked for for a long time. So the job is mine unless something terrible happens. I get the new plans tomorrow and my price will be due within a week or so.

 

[construct]

As other's have stated in this post, there are alot of variables. In my state, state statutes require that any builing over 20,000 cubic feet or more than 9 occupants must have a design professional (architect, engineer). So the professional classifies the occupancy, construction type, etc. Then the ahj reviews the design and either approves as submitted, approves with review notes, or approves with revisions.

The bottom line is that once approved, and you perform the work as designed, the responsibility monkey is kind of off your back. (Though as many know, everyone gets pulled into court in a lawsuit) If the architect is worth his salt, he is willing to take responsibilty for anything he designs with his seal and signature on it.

 

[relochris]

I may have jumped the gun by not yet having recieved the plans. I agree that all of this should be layed out in the plans by the architect. I'll definitely be posting tomorrow after I review the plans. As I've said, I'm trying to get some general advice and ideas so I can be as educated as I can when all of these things drop. I've recieved some great help and am thoughtfully looking at all of the recommendations. I really appreciate everyones input. Keep it coming!

 

[rgiraldo]

Read the Specs, notes , contract. Re-bid the job in phases. And if you feel you will lose your butt sub it out. Remember you have life safety, Fire Alarm etc..

You must review every thing from the drawing. You don't want to agree to a price and soon to find out the arc blast calculation is incorrect. trust me 20000 aic rated breakers are not cheap.

Look at the site, who will be supplying the transformer pads? Type of Light poles.

Above all make some money...

Be good

 

[ceb58]

The design is very basic. A single open room on the first floor. 2 offices and a common area upstairs with bathroom facilities. Hopefully there won't be any strange issues. I think I'll consider it an assembly even if it's not designed to be that large.

First the AHJ will not be the one to say the # of people. It will be the fire marshal. The churches I have done the engineer specked out mc cable I sent him the info on mcap and got a letter saying it was ok to use. Saved a lot of time instead of using regular mc cable. Watch out for dedicated ground circuits. They speck them out for sound systems circ. And what ever you do make sure its in your contact as to who is allowed to request change orders. There will be people running around with their ideas of what is needed and where. If you allow it they will run you crazy wanting every thing under the sun or wanting every thing moved. And make SURE that it is clear between you and the GC that you and only you touch your work. The last church I did I installed a box in the ceiling for a projector. I installed it where I was told the projector was to be placed. When I came back for trim out I noticed another box had been added due to the fact they gave me the wrong info on distance of projector. Upon further investigation I found they had ran a piece of sj cord from my box to the new one. I called the inspector to come look at it. When he ask the church members why they just didn't call me back they said they didn't want to pay to have it moved because they made the mistake. After the inspector got through explaining the fines for doing elect. work with out a license and I got through explaining that they had voided any warranty on the work they humbley agreed to pay me to fix their mess. And pay they did $$$