Fixed appliance

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ggonza

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I got into a discussion where I was told a fixed appliance needed a dedicated circuit. Does this sound correct. The appliance in questin is a microwave. Or could you put it on with on of the two 20 A circuits for the kitchen. micro is in kitchen this in a resi dwelling
 
110.3(B) may say it needs a dedicated circuit.

210.23(A)(2) may allow it to share a circuit.

It can be on the SABC if 210.23(A)(2) allows.

A corded micro/range hood needs its own circuit 422.16(B(4)
 
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ggonza said:
I got into a discussion where I was told a fixed appliance needed a dedicated circuit. Does this sound correct. The appliance in questin is a microwave. Or could you put it on with on of the two 20 A circuits for the kitchen. micro is in kitchen this in a resi dwelling
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If the microwave is sitting on the counter then obviously it does not matter, however if the microwave is an over the range microwave/hood then it cannot be on the SABC. The sabc is allowed to serve dining areas, pantries and counter tops. If the microwave is built in then, imo, it cannot be on a sabc. Also as stated by Jumper many microwaves specify a dedicate circuit.
 
jumper said:
Nope, ain't buying it. The assumption in that thread is that it is plugged into a non countertop receptacle.

Both my can opener and my toaster oven are mounted/fastened to the underside of the upper cabinets and are plugged into the countertop SABC. Are these violations?
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I like that one. I've got a little Sony radio/CD player that my wife uses, which is mounted to the underside of the upper cabinets. I suppose I need a dedicated circuit for that, too, but not for my surround-sound theater in the basement? jk.

Anyway, around here the assumption has always been that while the refrigerator could be on one of the SABCs, the permanently installed microwave must have its own circuit. Yeah, yeah, I know what they say: don't assume. But I've seen hundreds of homes built exactly to those specs.
 
iMuse97 said:
I like that one. I've got a little Sony radio/CD player that my wife uses, which is mounted to the underside of the upper cabinets. I suppose I need a dedicated circuit for that, too, but not for my surround-sound theater in the basement? jk.

Anyway, around here the assumption has always been that while the refrigerator could be on one of the SABCs, the permanently installed microwave must have its own circuit. Yeah, yeah, I know what they say: don't assume. But I've seen hundreds of homes built exactly to those specs.
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My opinion is that the permanently installed microwave can be installed on any circuit except for the SABC's, the required laundry circuit(s), or the required bathroom receptacle circuit(s). Many cases it is preferred to put it on its own circuit, but there is no requirement to do so.

If microwave sits on countertop it is not permantly installed and can plug into SABC. If microwave sits in a cabinet or cupboard and the receptacle is in that space (which it should be or that is a violation of 400.8) then that receptacle is not a 210.52 receptacle and therefore not allowed on SABC. If the receptacle is more than 5-1/2 feet above the floor it also is not a 210.52 receptacle and not allowed on SABC.
 
kwired said:
My opinion is that the permanently installed microwave can be installed on any circuit except for the SABC's, the required laundry circuit(s), or the required bathroom receptacle circuit(s). Many cases it is preferred to put it on its own circuit, but there is no requirement to do so.

If microwave sits on countertop it is not permantly installed and can plug into SABC. If microwave sits in a cabinet or cupboard and the receptacle is in that space (which it should be or that is a violation of 400.8) then that receptacle is not a 210.52 receptacle and therefore not allowed on SABC. If the receptacle is more than 5-1/2 feet above the floor it also is not a 210.52 receptacle and not allowed on SABC.
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So you are saying that this micro would be in violation if installed and plugged into a SABC counter top receptacle?

http://products.geappliances.com/ApplProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=SpecPage&Sku=JE740WY
 
jumper said:
So you are saying that this micro would be in violation if installed and plugged into a SABC counter top receptacle?

http://products.geappliances.com/ApplProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=SpecPage&Sku=JE740WY
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What do you mean when you say installed? If you take it out of the box, set it on the counter and plug it in then there is no violation.

If you place it on a shelf or inside a cabinet whether it has a door or is open fronted it is not a counter top appliance. Plugging it into a receptacle that serves countertop space would not be a violation, but the owner is not going to like the way the cord is routed and will want either a receptacle in same space as the appliance, or route the cord through a hole in the cabinet to get it to the receptacle. The receptacle in the same space of the appliance is not a 210.52 receptacle and not allowed on the SABC. The cord through the hole in the cabinet is a violation of 400.8.
 
kwired said:
The cord through the hole in the cabinet is a violation of 400.8.
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Which aspect? I am looking at the 2008 NEC, and it has seven things listed under "uses not permitted." I don't see any of them applying to a hole in the bottom of a kitchen cabinet that allows a microwave cord to reach a countertop receptacle.
 
210.23 (A)
(1) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment Not Fastened in Place. The rating of any one cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place shall not exceed 80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.
(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.

My question would be what size of microwave you are talking about. If it is larger than 1200 watts the question is mute.
 
jwelectric said:
210.23 (A)
(1) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment Not Fastened in Place. The rating of any one cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place shall not exceed 80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.
(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.

My question would be what size of microwave you are talking about. If it is larger than 1200 watts the question is mute.
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Cord and plug connected and not fastened in place it can be 1440 watts if on a 15 amp circuit or 1920 watts if on a 20 amp circuit. And it does not mention whether or not other loads are permitted on same circuit. It just says any single utilization equipment shall not exceed 80 percent of branch circuit rating.
 
kwired said:
Cord and plug connected and not fastened in place it can be 1440 watts if on a 15 amp circuit or 1920 watts if on a 20 amp circuit. And it does not mention whether or not other loads are permitted on same circuit. It just says any single utilization equipment shall not exceed 80 percent of branch circuit rating.
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What do it say in #2?
 
Can I plug this 800 watt micro, that is fastened in place, into a counter top SABC receptacle or not?

micro.jpg
 
jumper said:
Can I plug this 800 watt micro, that is fastened in place, into a counter top SABC receptacle or not?
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Yes, IMHO. And the other half of that duplex can be used to plug in the undercabinet puck light. Perhaps one or both of those ideas might not be for the best, but neither is forbidden by the NEC.
 
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