fixing more than what you priced?

[saratoga1]

Plumber called me and needed a 20 amp sump pump circuit installed underneath the eletrical panel in the basement (an easy one he said!!) it needed to be done in the morning, I took the permit out and headed to do the job, it turns out the panel was a ML sub panel, it was fed with 4- #6 cu conductors, the neutral and ground were under the same lug, now... I straightened up the wiring and seperated the grounds and neutrals in the sub panel, I installed my circuit under it, that was sump pump # 3 in this house, but the discharge pipes all run about 18" in front of this sub panel, I am not sure if it will pass inspection??? but the plumber is not moving them, they were exsisting he said. Anyone else run into things like this, that you have to fix to do your job? I know I should have looked at it first but wanted the permit in hand before I started, the rule around here!!

 

[SmithBuilt]

I address the violations with the homeowner. I tell them if there is any dangerous violations that definitly should be fixed. Then I leave it up to the homeowner and the inspector as to whether the problems get repaired or not. I get paid for doing them though.

Inspectors in my area will overlook existing violations in many cases. If there is any question on a job I may call the inspector and ask.

 

[BackInTheHabit]

Plumber called me and needed a 20 amp sump pump circuit installed underneath the eletrical panel in the basement (an easy one he said!!) it needed to be done in the morning, I took the permit out and headed to do the job, it turns out the panel was a ML sub panel, it was fed with 4- #6 cu conductors, the neutral and ground were under the same lug, now... I straightened up the wiring and seperated the grounds and neutrals in the sub panel, I installed my circuit under it, that was sump pump # 3 in this house, but the discharge pipes all run about 18" in front of this sub panel, I am not sure if it will pass inspection??? but the plumber is not moving them, they were exsisting he said. Anyone else run into things like this, that you have to fix to do your job? I know I should have looked at it first but wanted the permit in hand before I started, the rule around here!!

Not sure why you needed a permit to install a sump pump circuit. Not required around here for pre-existing equipment.

If it was an upgrade then yes I can see the need for a permit. Or if your local city ordinances require any work to have a permit.

You did the right thing by correcting the panel make-up regardless of wether or not it was getting inspected.

BTW: Put your location in your profile. It will help those who answer your post.

 

[brian john]

One thing for sure anytime someone tells you

"Oh this is simple" it never is

"Oh this will just take 30 minutes" 4 hours later.

"Just stop by on the way home" as you are late for dinner and more.

 

[quogueelectric]

One thing for sure anytime someone tells you

"Oh this is simple" it never is

"Oh this will just take 30 minutes" 4 hours later.

"Just stop by on the way home" as you are late for dinner and more.

They want you to do it for free because it is close to the panel.

 

[quogueelectric]

Not sure why you needed a permit to install a sump pump circuit. Not required around here for pre-existing equipment.

If it was an upgrade then yes I can see the need for a permit. Or if your local city ordinances require any work to have a permit.

You did the right thing by correcting the panel make-up regardless of wether or not it was getting inspected.

BTW: Put your location in your profile. It will help those who answer your post.

Certain towns by me you had better have a permit to change a recepticle or you are going to see the judge.

 

[macmikeman]

Did you do the correct thing to repair the pre-existing problems on your own without compensation? I say no, you did the incorrect thing. This will cause much fuss by my saying so, but not once I point out how the auto mechanic does not replace your worn brakes when you come in for an oil change. Electricians have all been duped into thinking we are responsible for all pre-existing defects as soon as we turn a screw. This is pure drivel, perpetuated by word of mouth. If you had a written contract to install a pump hookup, it should have stated "not responsible for any existing defects in the electrical sytem at the structure and any repairs requested or required to make are additional work and will be charged extra" or something similar. Next thing to do is stop work and get the change order signed and paid for.

 

[satcom]

When you look at the job and discover that in order to instal the new circuit, you will need to work on the panel, at this point you inform the customer of the complete cost of doing the job to need code and pass inspection, not start the job and then the customer there is more work required to pass inspection. What inspector woul let anyone add a circuit to a panel, that does not meet code?

 

[SmithBuilt]

What inspector would let anyone add a circuit to a panel, that does not meet code?

IMO many. As about any panel you go into these days has some violation.

But I would like for from some inspectors to chime in on this.

 

[satcom]

IMO many. As about any panel you go into these days has some violation.

But I would like for from some inspectors to chime in on this.

The licensed EC should know he can't tie a new circuit into a panel with violations, without fixing the violations, the inspector inspects, it's not his job to teach anyone how to identify a violation.

 

[mdshunk]

Every job should start with a survey of what it's going to take to do the job. More than an offset nipple and a GFCI in this case, without a doubt. The plumber hired you, so the first thing you should have done after you took the panel cover off and discovered the extent of the work required was to call the plumber and explain what you need to do. You're working for him in this case, and not the homeowner. If he passes you on to the homeowner, then (and only then), do you discuss this with them. I don't see it as my duty to ever fix anything beyond what I was hired to do on my dime. If I need to do that, I don't even start the work until I get approval for everything that needs done.

 

[SmithBuilt]

The licensed EC should know he can't tie a new circuit into a panel with violations, without fixing the violations,

I'm licensed and have done it many times. I have never failed an inspection because of existing violations. Do you have a code reference supporting that statement, even a local one?

I show the owner the violations if they would like them fixed I do so, if not it's up to the inspector to require repair. I cannot force the owner to do the repairs and I will not do them for free. If there is a dangerous situation I recommend the HO fix them immediately.

 

[mdshunk]

I'm licensed and have done it many times. I have never failed an inspection because of existing violations.

I understand what you're saying, but think about this one. Subpanel was 4-wire fed without the grounds and neutrals seperated. Where are you going to compliantly land your new ground and neutral? :roll:

 

[satcom]

Existing violations, is one thing, tying in a circuit to a known violation, is another thing.

 

[SmithBuilt]

I understand what you're saying, but think about this one. Subpanel was 4-wire fed without the grounds and neutrals seperated. Where are you going to compliantly land your new ground and neutral? :roll:

No, a mans gotta drawn the line somewhere.

 

[saratoga1]

I guess I should have looked at it first, but I didnt want to start the job without a permit, they have cracked down doing installations here without one (repair/replace, you are fine without one) as I said, I did fix the sub panel and seperated the neutrals and grounds, I called the inspector and he said it needed to be done, I am concerned with the sump discharge pipes less than 3' directly infront of the panel (about 18") the thing of it is, the panel has a contractor sticker on it, one of the bigger contractors in the city, but no inspection sticker, the Homeowner stated it was there when she bought the house. It all falls down to I was trying to save time that I didnt have and the plumber called Tuesday night and needed the job done Wednesday morning...live and learn, I guess! I was just curious as to how many people had to fix extra items in order to get their part inspected and passed.

 

[mdshunk]

the thing of it is, the panel has a contractor sticker on it, one of the bigger contractors in the city, but no inspection sticker, the Homeowner stated it was there when she bought the house.

Don't read too much into that. I put my stickers all over stuff I didn't install.

 

[stickboy1375]

Don't read too much into that. I put my stickers all over stuff I didn't install.

Yep, I put stickers right over the last guys stickers... they can get pretty thick....

 

[satcom]

I guess! I was just curious as to how many people had to fix extra items in order to get their part inspected and passed.

My guess would be all the good guys that do things the right way, had to fix many extra items in order to get their job inspected, and passed.

 

[saratoga1]

well, I passed my inspection, but the inspector noted that the plumbing lines were to close to the panel and made note with the homeowner to have it fixed, all is well!!