Fixture mounting

[nizak]

Can an exterior light fixture be mounted directly to a brick surface without an outlet box?

Mounting Bracket with the threaded studs would be attached with masonry anchors and the wiring would be enclosed within the canopy.

I can’t find anything in the code that says it can’t be.

Please direct me to the requirement if I’m wrong.

Thank you.

 

[kwired]

Possibly comes down to listing requirements and instructions more so than direct code requirements?

There is luminaires not designed or intended to mount to an outlet box, and there are luminaires that are only designed to mount to an outlet box.

Some wall pack type luminaires can be either way.

 

[infinity]

Unless it has an integral wiring compartment most typical exterior fixtures would require a box. Can you post a photo of what you're thinking?

 

[kwired]

Unless it has an integral wiring compartment most typical exterior fixtures would require a box. Can you post a photo of what you're thinking?

Is that mentioned in NEC or is it more of a listing thing? I was looking through Art 410 and not really finding any requirement that states a box must be used, though most of us kind of assume there must be one.

Not really seeing anything in art 300 that addresses this either.

 

[infinity]

Is that mentioned in NEC or is it more of a listing thing? I was looking through Art 410 and not really finding any requirement that states a box must be used, though most of us kind of assume there must be one.

Not really seeing anything in art 300 that addresses this either.

Can 120 volt splices be made without a box or without some type of integral enclosure on the fixture? I don't think that they can.

 

[kwired]

Can 120 volt splices be made without a box or without some type of integral enclosure on the fixture? I don't think that they can.

OK, that part I guess makes sense though I don't know off top my head where it is at in code I'm pretty certain I can find that.

I knew there needed to be a box but was kind of taking the wrong approach at why the box is required therefore having a hard time deciding what I would cite as a violation if I were asked to cite the violation.

 

[infinity]

OK, that part I guess makes sense though I don't know off top my head where it is at in code I'm pretty certain I can find that.

I knew there needed to be a box but was kind of taking the wrong approach at why the box is required therefore having a hard time deciding what I would cite as a violation if I were asked to cite the violation.

Yeah once you factor in the splices I think that the box requirement is self explanatory.

 

[nizak]

Looks like someone is going to be drilling out 4” holes in the brick then for boxes.

 

[kec]

Lost count on how many times the homeowner has asked to replace an exterior wall mounted fixture only to find no box.

 

[nizak]

Lost count on how many times the homeowner has asked to replace an exterior wall mounted fixture only to find no box.

I agree. And most always on vinyl or wood.

At least brick is non combustible and would provide some safety.

 

[readydave8]

Lost count on how many times the homeowner has asked to replace an exterior wall mounted fixture only to find no box.

Replaced a paddle fan at one house and 2 coach lights at another this week, 3 fixtures no boxes, 100% for week

 

[ramsy]

Can an exterior light fixture be mounted directly to a brick surface without an outlet box?

410.23 wants any combustible surface covered with non-combustible material.

 

[kwired]

410.23 wants any combustible surface covered with non-combustible material.

I did run into that earlier when searching for answer to OP.

AFAIK metal boxes do not require listing, so possibly is acceptable to use a metal back plate behind the luminaire canopy to contain the splices? Allowing brick behind the luminaire makes some sense but maybe pushing the rules to some degree?

I guess 314.16 does require the volume to be marked for boxes less than 100 cubic inches, unless it is a box listed in T314.16(A).

But then there is 314.24 that requires the box to have minimum internal depth of 1/2 inch if it doesn't enclose devices or utilization equipment.

 

[ramsy]

314.16 does require the volume to be marked for boxes less than 100 cubic inches, unless it is a box listed in T314.16(A).

But then there is 314.24 that requires the box to have minimum internal depth of 1/2 inch if it doesn't enclose devices or utilization equipment.

Yes, it appears missing boxes get red tagged at rough-in, without proving luminaries listed for the purpose.

Unless inspectors can be persuaded by the latest NFPA-70 Handbook:

2023 NEC 314.25(B), Handbook Content, last sentence:
"Where the wall or ceiling finish is concrete, tile, gypsum, plaster, or other noncombustible material, the requirements of this section do not apply."

 

[kwired]

Yes, it appears missing boxes get red tagged at rough-in, without proving luminaries listed for the purpose.

Unless inspectors can be persuaded by the latest NFPA-70 Handbook:

That section does not address whether or not you can exclude having a box though, it is all about canopy/cover that spans over more than just the dimension of the box in a flush box application

 

[ramsy]

it is all about canopy/cover that spans (beyond) the box

Roger that,
The Handbook language is not enforceable.