Fixture whips

[Coogs]

In the day of the LED lighting and a fixture can be comprised of two or more individual fixtures. What is a fixture? It used to be like one 2 x 4 fluorescent or a recessed can or something like that. Now I have 24 foot long LED fixtures with one part number but it comprised of three, eight foot fixtures put together. Is this now considered a fixture?
This has created an argument between electricians in our company. I don’t think it is one fixture. I think it’s three, eight foot fixture and cannot be put on a single fixture whip. The fixture whip has #18 wire and all three lights do not draw over 6 amp’s. What is your opinion?

 

[LarryFine]

If it's sold to be a single assembly when installed, it's a single fixture.

If it's three fixtures that are normally individually installed, and are adapted to be joined, it's three fixtures.

 

[kwired]

FYI NEC uses the term "luminaire" in recent years. Used to use the term fixture though.

 

[LarryFine]

FYI NEC uses the term "luminaire" in recent years. Used to use the term fixture though.

That's okay; the OP is in Colorado.

 

[Coogs]

OK, the luminaire is designed to be as long as you need it to be. The length is governed only by where you place the end caps. So for an inspector to sign off on luminaire, he would need to know the draw of each luminaire in the assembly and the size of the conductors in the whip. I don’t see them doing that.

 

[LarryFine]

Why not use a full-sized-conductors whip?

 

[Coogs]

That is my opinion, but I have a foreman arguing it is a single luminaire because of the single part #.

 

[kwired]

OK, the luminaire is designed to be as long as you need it to be. The length is governed only by where you place the end caps. So for an inspector to sign off on luminaire, he would need to know the draw of each luminaire in the assembly and the size of the conductors in the whip. I don’t see them doing that.

Might need to check the listing to see what it is called.

Remember the days of continuous rows of fluorescent strips? Wasn't each one still an individual luminaire, or fixture?

 

[Coogs]

YES!! That is the way I think of this. I think there should be a revision in the codebook to address this type of situation. With these type of luminaires how do you define a single luminaire when is created from an assembly.

 

[infinity]

If it's sold to be a single assembly when installed, it's a single fixture.

My opinion as well. We just installed hundreds of fixtures shipped in sections and installed together as one unit some 24' long. They were designed for a single feed at one end.

 

[LarryFine]

My opinion as well. We just installed hundreds of fixtures shipped in sections and installed together as one unit some 24' long. They were designed for a single feed at one end.

Yes, but fed with an 18g whip or full-sized conductors?

 

[infinity]

Yes, but fed with an 18g whip or full-sized conductors?

#18 AWG fixture whip.

 

[Jerramundi]

#18 AWG fixture whip.

Really?! Would have thought #12 because of the setting (i.e. likely a commercial setting).

Pigging backing off this issue, and apologies if this is digression, but a UL stamp of approval does NOT mean something is to NEC standards. It's a separate set of standards being tested, that may or may not include some NEC standards. Correct?

Additionally, just because something is on the shelf, doesn't mean it meets NEC standards.

I'd be throwing it away and making my own whip based on the calculated load, voltage drop, etc.
Internal wiring is on the manufacturer. An external whip, arguably under our purview, IMO... even if sold as part of the fixture... for the simple reason that again, just being on the proverbial shelf, doesn't mean it's okay.

I have a hard time thinking of a whip coming off a fixture as anything but our purview, even if it comes in the box.
The responses to this should be fun

 

[infinity]

Really?! Would have thought #12 because of the setting (i.e. likely a commercial setting).

Pigging backing off this issue, and apologies if this is digression, but a UL stamp of approval does NOT mean something is to NEC standards. It's a separate set of standards being tested, that may or may not include some NEC standards. Correct?

Additionally, just because something is on the shelf, doesn't mean it meets NEC standards.

I'd be throwing it away and making my own whip based on the calculated load, voltage drop, etc.
Internal wiring is on the manufacturer. An external whip, arguably under our purview, IMO... even if sold as part of the fixture... for the simple reason that again, just being on the proverbial shelf, doesn't mean it's okay.

I have a hard time thinking of a whip coming off a fixture as anything but our purview, even if it comes in the box.
The responses to this should be fun

How about a code section (violation or not) to go along with your theory?

 

[James L]

I'm getting ready to freelance wire and install 18 LED linear strip fixtures, in rows of 6. I've had to regroup a bit because the EC and Super didn't get good info from the customer.

They're designed to have end caps removed, joiners attached and connect up to about 40 of them together to become continuous strips. In that configuration, there are already feed-thru whips installed inside that are long enough to join to the next fixture. That would amount to 3 fixtures.

Problem is, the customer wants them installed with space between them. Now I have to either pipe separate boxes and drop down a separate feed for each fixture, or I have to join them end-to-end with half inch conduit. In either scenario oh, it is no longer 3 linear fixtures. Now it will be 18 fixtures

 

[rc/retired]

That's okay; the OP is in Colorado.

Is there a problem with Coloradoans that I'm not aware of????

 

[Coogs]

Is there a problem with Coloradoans that I'm not aware of????

I see you were an inspector in Colorado. If you read the start of this thread, as an inspector, how would you view using a #18 wire fixture whip on this type of luminaire? Would you consider it as one luminaire? I would appreciate your opinion.

 

[kwired]

I see you were an inspector in Colorado. If you read the start of this thread, as an inspector, how would you view using a #18 wire fixture whip on this type of luminaire? Would you consider it as one luminaire? I would appreciate your opinion.

I'd say it depends on the listing and instructions/accessories included in the listing. Very possible there is limitation on how many can be in the chain.

 

[rc/retired]

I would consider each section as 1 luminaire since you can add to any length you want.
Most electricians I've met would have used a #12 whip instead of the fixture whip.

 

[Coogs]

I would consider each section as 1 luminaire since you can add to any length you want.
Most electricians I've met would have used a #12 whip instead of the fixture whip.

Thank you, that is exactly how I would expect an inspector to judge it. I have always tried to lean towards the safe approach, but as you well know “probably better than most” the younger generation likes to argue issues. I know using 12/2 MC I would pass the inspection without having to trying to sell the inspector on my opinion.