Flash Hazard Analysis

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jesse dellinger

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Does the NFPA 70E state who is qualified to perform a Flash Hazard Analysis.
Can a Journeyman Electrician be a "qualified person" and perform a Flash Hazard Analysis, if trained and has understanding of NFPA 70E 130.3-130.7:confused:
 
raider1

raider1

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I moved this thread to the safety forum, because I felt the safety forum was a more appropriate location for a discussion of NFPA 70E.

Chris
 
richxtlc

richxtlc

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Location
Tampa Florida
I would recommend that you hire or use a PE familiar with arc flash hazard analysis. There are many more variables than those that are mentioned in 70E to consider in order to perform a meaningful analysis.
The programs that are available are not cheap but are a good value to those who can use them properly.

The reasoning behind using a PE is that only a PE can make the recommended changes to the protection that may be required in order to lower the HRC. A complete analysis including a short circuit analysis, and a coordination study is usually required for a valid arc flash hazard analysis.
 
richxtlc

richxtlc

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Location
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Many states require that a PE perform the short circuit study and the coordination study and certify their calculations. These studies determine that the rating of the installed equipment is adequate for the level of fault current that the equipment can be subjected to. In order to change the settings of protection an understanding of the facility's electrical system is also required which is usually at the level of an electrical engineer. Also a PE carries the liability insurance in the event that someone get hurt as a result of a mistake in the calculations, most electrican's do not carry the level of insurance that is required for this work.
 
zog

zog

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Location
Charlotte, NC
jesse dellinger said:
Does the NFPA 70E state who is qualified to perform a Flash Hazard Analysis.
Can a Journeyman Electrician be a "qualified person" and perform a Flash Hazard Analysis, if trained and has understanding of NFPA 70E 130.3-130.7:confused:
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As mentioned in some states a P.E. must do the analysis. Other than that being "qualified" or a journeyman has little to do with an arc flash hazard analysis. If your state does not require a P.E. then go ahead, but you need to understand much more than the NFPA 70E content, you need an in depth understanding of your protection system and how to calulate available fault current, arcing currents, and clearing times (Not to mention find the worst case senerio for different fault levels). You need to do some system modeling to figure out if alternative modes of operation (Single end fed of a secondary selective system, parrelled syytems, and emergency back up to name a few) effect your results.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

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jesse dellinger said:
Does anyone know if the state of California requires a PE to perform this analysis
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i'm looking into this type of work in calif. as well, and for any of this
to be acceptable to any of my customers, it's gonna need a wet ink
signature from a PE on the documents.

nobody's gonna give liability insurance for something like this to anyone
without professional credentials. my PE carries 10m general liability, and
10m errors and omissions insurance.

i as a lowly c-10 carry 2m general liability, and the scope of my license
does not extend to engineering power distribution systems, so my
insurance does not extend there either.

i think for all practical purposes, ya need the stamp, jesse..... sorry.

randy
 
F

farmaped

Member
Interesting. Where does one find out if their state requires a P.E. for the Arc Flash Analysis?
In particular PA, VA, WV, MD ?
Thanks.
 
cowboyjwc

cowboyjwc

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jesse dellinger said:
Does anyone know if the state of California requires a PE to perform this analysis
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The CA Business and Professions Code says that an EE or the EC doing the work, can design the electrical system. So if an EC did the drawings then I would assume that it is up to him to do the analysis.

My 70E (2004) simply says that it has to be done, it doesn't say it has to be done by a qualified person. Also since we are still under the 2005 code, it's not required yet, since we do not enforce 70E.

While it doesn't say that a qualified person must design it, it does say that only qualified persons may enter the zone(s). My question is how do you get qualified?
 
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zog

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
cowboyjwc said:
Kind of sounds like self inspection to me.:D Here's your suit, be careful. :-?
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Your employer better be ready to produce the required training documentation and justification of why they deemed you "Qualified" when OSHA shows up.

But, sometimes they do say "here is your suit, be careful", maybe show them a 1 hr video on arc flash, try to scare them safe or something like that, seen way too many accidents following that type of situation.
 
cowboyjwc

cowboyjwc

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Location
Simi Valley, CA
zog said:
Your employer better be ready to produce the required training documentation and justification of why they deemed you "Qualified" when OSHA shows up.

But, sometimes they do say "here is your suit, be careful", maybe show them a 1 hr video on arc flash, try to scare them safe or something like that, seen way too many accidents following that type of situation.
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I've been lucky and never had a problem. What's getting hard, is that as an inspector I'm supposed to follow all the same rules as the EC and the city doesn't seem willing to send me to the training or buy the proper gear. So no gear gets energized until everything is done and I don't have to look in it again.
 
zog

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
cowboyjwc said:
I've been lucky and never had a problem. What's getting hard, is that as an inspector I'm supposed to follow all the same rules as the EC and the city doesn't seem willing to send me to the training or buy the proper gear. So no gear gets energized until everything is done and I don't have to look in it again.
Click to expand...

Yep, thats how it should be done, and when you witness the GFI test, stand outside the AFB.
 
ron

ron

Senior Member
Location
New York, 40.7514,-73.9925
I've seen many relatively large electrical distribution system designed by the EC in jurisdictions where a PE stamp on the drawings were not required for a permit. This is not only small jurisdictions, because even NYC doesn't require a PE stamp, just an EC license.
If an EC can design the distribution, I would then guess they can do the arc flash analysis.
 
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