flat mount 1900 box with a single gang modring. Code violation ?

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O'donisR

O'donisR

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I Installed 4x4 metal boxes with single gang flat mod rings on the surface a concrete wall, installation didn't pass the electrical rough inspection, because the flat mod rings, any advise on this? inspector didn't like the flat mod ring because it gonna be behind the drywall!, now I think on use extension boxes after the drywall installation to meet the code and install the receptacles.

I got this in mind. 1 ship the concrete wall and reinstall all the boxes with the required mod rings or 2 use extension boxes. please help.

be1-sm.jpg
 
I would also used 1/2" raised covers but I don't see how this should fail rough in. Lightolier makes recessed cans that are flush with the back of the sheetrock and the trim fills the gap. The add a depth ring shown should make it compliant. The inspector may not like it but it is compliant
 
314.20 In Wall or Ceiling. In walls or ceilings with a surface of concrete, tile, gypsum, plaster, or other noncombustible material, boxes employing a flush-type cover or faceplate shall be installed so that the front edge of the box, plaster ring, extension ring, or listed extender will not be set back of the finished surface more than 6 mm (1⁄4 in.). In walls and ceilings constructed of wood or other combustible surface material, boxes, plaster rings, extension
rings, or listed extenders shall be flush with the finished surface or project therefrom.
 
kbsparky said:
Replace the flat cover with a raised one:

View attachment 7376
Click to expand...

I can't use it, boxes are surface mount,this mod ring will extend out the wall like 3/8" and receptacle faceplate will not be flush to wall, if I use it I will have to take out the boxes, ship the concrete like 3/8 dip then reinstall the box and I got like 40 of them with the same problem. everything looks like this is the way to go. Thanks
 
O'donisR said:
I can't use it, boxes are surface mount,this mod ring will extend out the wall like 3/8" and receptacle faceplate will not be flush to wall, if I use it I will have to take out the boxes, ship the concrete like 3/8 dip then reinstall the box and I got like 40 of them with the same problem. everything looks like this is the way to go. Thanks
Click to expand...

How will the mud ring extend out 3/8" of an inch? Is the wall covered in sheetrock?
 
O'donisR said:
I Installed 4x4 metal boxes with single gang flat mod rings on the surface a concrete wall, installation didn't pass the electrical rough inspection, because the flat mod rings, any advise on this? inspector didn't like the flat mod ring because it gonna be behind the drywall!, now I think on use extension boxes after the drywall installation to meet the code and install the receptacles.

I got this in mind. 1 ship the concrete wall and reinstall all the boxes with the required mod rings or 2 use extension boxes. please help.

View attachment 7375
Click to expand...

Is the surface of the concrete wall also the finished wall?
Is the flat mud ring listed?


from the UL White Book:

METALLIC OUTLET BOXES (QCIT)
GENERAL
This category covers metallic mud rings, flush device boxes, conduit bodies,
conduit boxes, floor boxes, outlet boxes, outlet box hoods, special-purpose
boxes, extension rings, covers, and cover plates for flush-mounted
wiring devices, intended for installation in accordance with Article 314 of
ANSI/NFPA 70, ??National Electrical Code?? (NEC). These products are also
intended for installation and use in accordance with the following information.
MUD RINGS
A mud ring positions a flush-mounted wiring device flush with the finished
wall surface. Mud rings may be provided with either a fixed or
adjustable depth sleeve.

If you are positioning a flush mounted device with a mud ring that has zero extension because the finished surface is flush with the edge of the box, then I don't understand the problem the inspector claims.
 
O'donisR said:
I can't use it, boxes are surface mount,this mod ring will extend out the wall like 3/8" and receptacle faceplate will not be flush to wall, if I use it I will have to take out the boxes, ship the concrete like 3/8 dip then reinstall the box and I got like 40 of them with the same problem. everything looks like this is the way to go. Thanks
Click to expand...

You are not making any sense here. IF the flat mud rings will end up "behind the drywall" as the inspector points out, then a raised mud ring would make perfect sense here.

You get to pick the amount of raise you need: They are available in 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 1 inch raised or even more.

How thick is the drywall going to be, and how close to the back of the wallboard will the front edge of the box be? Take the sum of those 2 measurements and then use that size for a compliant installation.
 
here are 3 images, two first one are the flat mod ring and the third one is the one I repaired, I think this is what i have to do to all installed 4x4 boxes.
 

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O'donisR said:
here are 3 images, two first one are the flat mod ring and the third one is the one I repaired, I think this is what i have to do to all installed 4x4 boxes.
Click to expand...

How could they possibly install the wallboard on the box in the first photo?
 
I see the problem here. The OP is trying to install a 1?" deep box into a 3/4" space.

He will have to make the depth greater in order for the box to physically fit.

I might have tried to convince the builders to use larger furring strips, such as a sideways 2x4 ...
 
Just an opinion, but this is the absolute worst way to finish a block wall, not to mention damaging the foundation by chopping in electrical boxes. 1 5/8" metal studs would be a better solution. Even flat 2X4's won't accommodate a standard 1.5" deep metal box with a mud ring.
 
infinity said:
Just an opinion, but this is the absolute worst way to finish a block wall, not to mention damaging the foundation by chopping in electrical boxes. 1 5/8" metal studs would be a better solution. Even flat 2X4's won't accommodate a standard 1.5" deep metal box with a mud ring.
Click to expand...

It may be a pain but it is very common in hotels and assisted living type buildings, we send an apprentice around to blow out the blocks where needed with a demo hammer.

They will not sacrifice any floor space to make the electrians job easier.
 
fmtjfw said:
Is the surface of the concrete wall also the finished wall?
Is the flat mud ring listed?


from the UL White Book:

METALLIC OUTLET BOXES (QCIT)
GENERAL
This category covers metallic mud rings, flush device boxes, conduit bodies,
conduit boxes, floor boxes, outlet boxes, outlet box hoods, special-purpose
boxes, extension rings, covers, and cover plates for flush-mounted
wiring devices, intended for installation in accordance with Article 314 of
ANSI/NFPA 70, ??National Electrical Code?? (NEC). These products are also
intended for installation and use in accordance with the following information.
MUD RINGS
A mud ring positions a flush-mounted wiring device flush with the finished
wall surface. Mud rings may be provided with either a fixed or
adjustable depth sleeve.

If you are positioning a flush mounted device with a mud ring that has zero extension because the finished surface is flush with the edge of the box, then I don't understand the problem the inspector claims.
Click to expand...

Mod rings are listed, and has zero extension, finish surface will be flush with the edge of the box. I will have to talk with the inspector, you are right. Thank you
 
1900

1900

Pic #3 is the way we always did the first floor of dwellings in florida, apprentice w/ hammer in hand, breakout void in block, 1900 box box ,offset in reverse 1/2" raised ring and done w/ it. (1979) no problems w/ inspector.:D
 
Use a 2 gang "flat" ring and install 2 receptacles and a flush 2 gang trimplate and it will look "normal".

I still don't see what inspector has failed, it may look out of ordinary but is no code violation
 
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