Flood Damage

[tonype]

Basement flooded during Sandy - work was done, but I am wrestling with the quality (not sure who did the work). Some specifics:

1. Main breaker to building was replaced (though cabinet was not) - also, a metal plate with rivet like protrusions were added.
2. Meters were replaced; however, meter housings were not (tamper seals are also missing).
3. Many cables that were under the flood level were not replaced.
4. New fire alarm panel was put back into basement that has flooded twice in the last year or so (Irene and Sandy).

Not sure if AHJ or POCO approved installations yet. Photos show some of the stuff. My main question: Are there are requirements to relocate stuff out of flood area (I realized that NJ Rehab code likely does not, but are there others entities that may (FEMA, etc))?

 

[petersonra]

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Basement flooded during Sandy - work was done, but I am wrestling with the quality (not sure who did the work). Some specifics:

1. Main breaker to building was replaced (though cabinet was not) - also, a metal plate with rivet like protrusions were added.

IMO, cabinets do not require replacement. I do not have an issue with a repair being made to a box. the code requires any unused openings be closed.

2. Meters were replaced; however, meter housings were not (tamper seals are also missing).

Meter housings are enclosures. No replacement required IMO. Tamper seals are presumably added by POCO when they get around to it.

3. Many cables that were under the flood level were not replaced.

There is no general requirement that wiring be replaced unless it is not rated for wet areas.

4. New fire alarm panel was put back into basement that has flooded twice in the last year or so (Irene and Sandy).

Who cares? The rest of the electrical stuff is there as well. If they get another 100 year flood, it will flood again.

Not sure if AHJ or POCO approved installations yet. Photos show some of the stuff. My main question: Are there are requirements to relocate stuff out of flood area (I realized that NJ Rehab code likely does not, but are there others entities that may (FEMA, etc))?

It is doubtful that there are any governmental entities that would prohibit these repairs. Sometimes if an area is in a designated flood plain, the government sponsored flood insurance program will not pay to rebuild unless certain things are done such as relocating, or in some cases putting a building on legs to get it out of the flood plain.

Just curious why you are involved at all. This would appear to be strictly an issue for the local AHJ.

 

[tonype]

It is doubtful that there are any governmental entities that would prohibit these repairs. Sometimes if an area is in a designated flood plain, the government sponsored flood insurance program will not pay to rebuild unless certain things are done such as relocating, or in some cases putting a building on legs to get it out of the flood plain.

Just curious why you are involved at all. This would appear to be strictly an issue for the local AHJ.

My client is looking at buying the property (even though the basement filled with water) - I did the due-diligence inspection. Water that entered was brackish - Hackensack River in NJ - there is some salt content.

 

[tonype]

BTW, owner of property did not have flood insurance = paying the full freight. Coupled with selling the property, this raises the red flag of wanting to do everything as inexpensive as possible.

 

[eljefetaco]

Jersey shore flooding salt and rx dont mix

Jersey shore flooding salt and rx dont mix

This is a true story please be safe and do the right thing. Replace all the wire.

I was called in to a house in Bay Head, NJ they had been flooded to 3 inches above floor level. They had a breaker for baseboard heaters that had triped when power was restored. When customer turned it on in front of me I heard loud sound, of the oh that's not good. Don't touch anything, I'm going into crawl space. After a few minutes I saw a 6" section of 12/2 rx burnt and crispy. It was below a hvac duct opening and i had rationalized the installer must have nicked it causing it to be the reason. One hour later I'm in the truck getting something and hear one of my guys screaming. Another wire started arcing and burning. This wire was in between joists, no rx staple or obvious/ plausible reason for fire. I killed power and informed customer ALL wiring will need to be replace or I will be removing my company from the job. Upon customer seeing the near disaster in the basement he agreed. Does anyone know of any studying on saltwater and electricity.

 

[Cavie]

Anything that was underwater salt water is gonna rust and carrode. I'ved Lived in Florida all my life. It will take time but it will happen. Put a steal painted boat trailor in salt water one time and it will rust from the inside out.

 

[goldstar]

You should read through this thread. A lot of good information : http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=148857 .

This NEMA standard was posted by Zog and IMHO is probably your best guideline for doing repairs in flood damaged areas :

http://www.nema.org/Standards/Compl...uating-Water-damaged-Electrical-Equipment.pdf .

This is a copy of an opinion letter issued by the DCA that Rick Napier posted. Take notice that no one signed the letter :

http://www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/codes/alerts/pdfs/hurricane_sandy_guidance_11_2012.pdf

IMHO, I'd protect my butt and do the right thing. If any NMB cable was under SALT or BRACKISH water it will probably corrode in a short amount of time not to mention that the paper wrapping inside the jacket can wick up about 10'. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[tonype]

My client is looking at buying the property (even though the basement filled with water) - I did the due-diligence inspection. Water that entered was brackish - Hackensack River in NJ - there is some salt content.

The one photo I supplied also shows a re-used metal clad cable entering the bottom of a new panel - already seeing corrosion at the connection. I am concluding that this wire end was underwater - no other conclusion based on the length and location.

 

[petersonra]

I think the answer is that you mention that the wiring was underwater and this may or may not present an issue down the road.

There is just no way to know with any certainty.

I would not be making any specific recommendations as to what to do as that would seem to be beyond your area of expertise, and in fact is likely beyond the area of expertise of most electricians. I suspect that is one of the reasons they want to rip it out and start over. It is arguably the "safest" way to go.