Flood repairs

bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
wac= washington (state) administrative (electrical) code:

"Flood Areas
WAC 296-46B-110(2) Electrical equipment and wiring that has been submerged or exposed to water must comply with the following:
(a) All breakers, fuses, controllers, receptacles, lighting switches/dimmers, electric heaters, and any sealed device/equipment (e.g., relays, contractors, etc.) must be replaced.
(b) All other electrical equipment (e.g., wiring, breaker panel boards, disconnect switches, switchgear, motor control centers, boiler controls, HVAC/R equipment, electric motors, transformers, appliances, water heaters, and similar appliances) must be replaced or reconditioned by the original manufacturer, or by its approved representative.
If exposed to flooding, an inspection must be made for: Any underground wiring, if any electrical connection was flooded, Any electrical equipment installed outdoors (e.g. mobile home pedestal, transformers, switches, receptacles, etc.), if any part of the equipment was flooded, Any structure with a basement area, Any structure where the maximum flood level reached the lower limit of the lower floor joists, or Any structure with a floor on grade."

just fyi. might help somebody in NJ or NY tho it certainly doesnot apply outside of wa
 

Jerseydaze

Senior Member
I refuse to "just replace the breakers" on any flood panels we all know they will corrode down the road then whos fault is it?
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
wac= washington (state) administrative (electrical) code:

"Flood Areas
WAC 296-46B-110(2) Electrical equipment and wiring that has been submerged or exposed to water must comply with the following:
(a) All breakers, fuses, controllers, receptacles, lighting switches/dimmers, electric heaters, and any sealed device/equipment (e.g., relays, contractors, etc.) must be replaced.
(b) All other electrical equipment (e.g., wiring, breaker panel boards, disconnect switches, switchgear, motor control centers, boiler controls, HVAC/R equipment, electric motors, transformers, appliances, water heaters, and similar appliances) must be replaced or reconditioned by the original manufacturer, or by its approved representative.
If exposed to flooding, an inspection must be made for: Any underground wiring, if any electrical connection was flooded, Any electrical equipment installed outdoors (e.g. mobile home pedestal, transformers, switches, receptacles, etc.), if any part of the equipment was flooded, Any structure with a basement area, Any structure where the maximum flood level reached the lower limit of the lower floor joists, or Any structure with a floor on grade."

just fyi. might help somebody in NJ or NY tho it certainly doesnot apply outside of wa
If I am not badly mistaken this is also the wording OSHA and/or UL has for these situations.

So everything that went under water has to be replaced.

What can be salvaged?
Why would you want to salvage any thing. May take the wire to sell for scrap.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
I had a customer call me today about his shore property. He had been told that after the flood, all the electric baseboard heaters would have to be replaced or they'd pose a fire hazard when the electric gets turned on again. I got some more details from him - house on pilings, maybe an inch of water on the floor so the heaters probably weren't wet. I told him to call his insurance agent and find out what they were going to want to continue to underwrite his policy and that I suspect that a minimum of a full inspection of the wiring would be needed. Does anyone here know whether the POCOs in NJ are requiring any kind of inspection before re-energizing?

This is going to take an enormous amount of manpower to accomplish across the state, but it sounds like NJ is allowing it contractors to pull in help from other states. Delaware, on the other hand, has screwed itself royally with legislation it passed this spring that states that ANY electrical worker (apprentice, journeyman, master etc) must be licensed in Delaware. That's going to make it really tough to bring in enough contractors to deal with the volume of work in a timely manner.
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
This is going to take an enormous amount of manpower to accomplish across the state, but it sounds like NJ is allowing it contractors to pull in help from other states. Delaware, on the other hand, has screwed itself royally with legislation it passed this spring that states that ANY electrical worker (apprentice, journeyman, master etc) must be licensed in Delaware. That's going to make it really tough to bring in enough contractors to deal with the volume of work in a timely manner.
The Governor of the state should be able to over ride that law for a short period of time due to the emergency. I know that here just about every time we have a hurricane the Governor puts out an executive order to over ride the weight and size rules for truck so they can haul more material and supplies in for the disaster.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
The Governor of the state should be able to over ride that law for a short period of time due to the emergency. I know that here just about every time we have a hurricane the Governor puts out an executive order to over ride the weight and size rules for truck so they can haul more material and supplies in for the disaster.
Just because he could does not make it a good idea.

Unfortunatly these types of disasters bring in a lot of rip off artists and if you drop the rules it only makes it easier for them to rip people off.

Which is worse, being without power a bit longer or getting ripped off and either still having no power or a dangerous repair?

We had a customer that wanted eight guys to go to NJ to help with generator hook ups but we did not have the licensing so we did not go.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
Just because he could does not make it a good idea.

Unfortunatly these types of disasters bring in a lot of rip off artists and if you drop the rules it only makes it easier for them to rip people off.

Which is worse, being without power a bit longer or getting ripped off and either still having no power or a dangerous repair?

We had a customer that wanted eight guys to go to NJ to help with generator hook ups but we did not have the licensing so we did not go.
I don't advocate loosening rules so that rip-off artists can have a heyday at all. I think a system could be designed to allow licensed contractors from neighboring states to come in, pull permits, work and get inspections for a limited time to allow homeowners and businesses to rebuild a little faster. Whether they do that under a local contractor's name or not can be left up to the AHJs involved, but either way they should have to assume the same kind of liability for their work as they would in their own state. In NJ for example, many of the homes affected belong to residents of PA who may have their own electricians/contractors here who could go down and do damage assessment and make repairs, but it's out of the question right now. On top of that, the reality is that these out of state owners can be targeted for rip-off by less-than-honest local NJ contractors. One of my customers called me because they felt like the local NJ contractor was trying to scam them by telling them the entire house needed new baseboard heaters and wiring without even looking at the property. I can't imagine it's going to be easy to shop around for second opinions or better prices for a long time down there...
 

Gold

Member
Location
US
You can legally work under the authorization a NJ Contractor. The NJ contractor should technically be "on-site" while work is being performed however.
 

robwire

Member
Location
USA
I don't advocate loosening rules so that rip-off artists can have a heyday at all. I think a system could be designed to allow licensed contractors from neighboring states to come in, pull permits, work and get inspections for a limited time to allow homeowners and businesses to rebuild a little faster. Whether they do that under a local contractor's name or not can be left up to the AHJs involved, but either way they should have to assume the same kind of liability for their work as they would in their own state. In NJ for example, many of the homes affected belong to residents of PA who may have their own electricians/contractors here who could go down and do damage assessment and make repairs, but it's out of the question right now. On top of that, the reality is that these out of state owners can be targeted for rip-off by less-than-honest local NJ contractors. One of my customers called me because they felt like the local NJ contractor was trying to scam them by telling them the entire house needed new baseboard heaters and wiring without even looking at the property. I can't imagine it's going to be easy to shop around for second opinions or better prices for a long time down there...
PA doesn't have licensing. Nor insurance . I have plenty of customers from PA and NY also.

If there was an inch of water on the floor then the baseboard heaters did get wet. Especially oceanfront houses on pilings. The water just doesn't seep in it came pounding in and got all over the place.

They are making us replace all the wire that got wet,they are making us follow the NJ rehab code. I am in my office pricing dozens of these right now.

Realistically, if I am replacing the wire going to a baseboard and water was on the floor in the house that baseboard is going to get replaced. The sheet rock has to come off ,so does the baseboard anyway. Its probably installed with roofing nails and will get destroyed removing it. Its cheaper!!!

Funny you call the guy a scam, I think your customers local electrician is better suited to do the work then you. The salt and other environmental factors change the way things are done,materials used,etc etc then inland.
 
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PetrosA

Senior Member
PA doesn't have licensing. Nor insurance . I have plenty of customers from PA and NY also.

If there was an inch of water on the floor then the baseboard heaters did get wet. Especially oceanfront houses on pilings. The water just doesn't seep in it came pounding in and got all over the place.

They are making us replace all the wire that got wet,they are making us follow the NJ rehab code. I am in my office pricing dozens of these right now.

Realistically, if I am replacing the wire going to a baseboard and water was on the floor in the house that baseboard is going to get replaced. The sheet rock has to come off ,so does the baseboard anyway. Its probably installed with roofing nails and will get destroyed removing it. Its cheaper!!!

Funny you call the guy a scam, I think your customers local electrician is better suited to do the work then you. The salt and other environmental factors change the way things are done,materials used,etc etc then inland.
I didn't call the guy a scam, the customer did because the guy told him everything would have to be replaced without seeing the house. I won't be doing the work there, so don't worry about me taking the local guy's work. As I stated, since the customer expressed concern, I recommended that he contact his insurance company to find out what they expect of him. I did explain to him that if any cable's stripped end was exposed to salt water, it would need to be replaced (so definitely any romex wiring that may be under the house), as would the heaters if they had been submerged or directly exposed to any extent. I'm not trying to attack anyone here. The reality in situations like this is that some contractors will treat this as an opportunity to cash in. That's human nature and can't be avoided and customers will, understandably, be leery of what they're told over the phone by someone they've never met and who stands to make money on their misfortune. Especially if he has a Jersey accent ;) (just kidding) :)
 

Gold

Member
Location
US
On top of that, the reality is that these out of state owners can be targeted for rip-off by less-than-honest local NJ contractors.
I'm not trying to attack anyone here. .... Especially if he has a Jersey accent ;) (just kidding) :)
Well so far most of the "rip off" contractors have been coming from out of state. Perhaps you should recommend your customer call a qualified local electrician.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
Well so far most of the "rip off" contractors have been coming from out of state. Perhaps you should recommend your customer call a qualified local electrician.
For the third time - I recommended that he call his insurer and get some guidance from them because I'm not in any position to assess the damage to his house and he didn't know who's in charge of making that decision, whether it's a contractor or some kind of inspector. He's from PA talking to people he doesn't know over the phone and the phone book doesn't have sections for "Electricians - Qualified" and "Electricians - Shady" in it. The guy he talked to was telling him he needs a complete rewire and replacement baseboard heaters without even looking at the house and he asked me if that made any sense or whether the guy was trying to rip him off. He's understandably suspicious.
 

robwire

Member
Location
USA
I am willing to bet the electrician knows what he is talking about. If its a summer house why doesn't he ask his neighbor down here who they use? The Realtor that handles the rentals? The local Chamber of commerce?

Google electricians and read the reviews.

I would have told him the same thing as that guy over the phone, why go look at it?

Take down the four ft of Sheetrock and then ill come over and give you a price. I bet he knows how high the water was as soon as he got the guys address.

Most of the hard hit areas are not even at the rewire stage yet, they just cleared demo contractors to start on the barrier island here today.

All of my oceanfront homes are either gone, sand underneath is gone and they are condemned or they are all blocked,it will be about a week until they get dug out enough to get in there.

We have been working on the bay side homes right now. Demoed 6 homes just today... CHA CHING $$$$$$$$
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
On the news tonight is was stated that the electricial service is looked at to determine if it's safe to energize on the/a POCO side.

I saw thirty trucks + convoy in PA from Texas while traveling this weekend... Plus another outfit from GA.

They gave their effort. Flags where flying on the Texas trucks...

News also said over 37K still remain... Guy on news said he's never seen anything like it!
 
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