Floor receptacles.

[nizak]

I need to place 2 floor receptacles in the center of a great room approximately 20’x 20’

The floor is free floating luxury vinyl plank.
The flooring contractor is telling the General Contractor he will not warranty the floor if there is anything securing it in place.

He cited a recent job that the floor buckled because of this very reason .

Anybody experienced this?
If so, any suggestions or particular product to use.

Thanks

 

[infinity]

Sounds like a problem for the GC and the customer not the electrician. Can the hole in the flooring for the receptacle be cut larger than the box allowing the floor to move?

 

[winnie]

I don't have experience with this, but IMHO as long as the floor box doesn't prevent the 'free floating' flooring from moving, it should be fine.

Consider: https://www.aifittings.com/catalog/floor-boxes/non-metallic-adjustable-floor-boxes/FLBAFR101BR
The box gets screwed down to the subfloor or joist below the floor. The 'bracket' that anchors the final height gets screwed through a small scrap of finish floor to the subfloor.

The finish flooring is cut to have sufficient clearance around the box/bracket/etc., but close enough that the gap is hidden by the cover plate.

The cover plate is attached to the box, not the finish floor. The finish floor is then free to move.

-Jonathan

 

[James L]

It's the same issue that vinyl siding has. It needs to be able to move

 

[macmikeman]

Are these floor outlets mandatory? Two places in the code require floor outlets. One is when fixed glass doors extend out over six feet so that there must be a floor outlet installed within 12" inches of the glass panels , or picket walls or some other style that is still considered wall space.
The other requirement comes into play in conference rooms, but usually for them there is "most times" another floor below with a drop ceiling where you can install poke thru outlets. There seem to be no exceptions for either when it comes to existing slab on grade , once the remodeling of the room is started.

So what I'm trying to get at is do the outlets really need to be in those locations or is it an owner's wish to have that feature. If so then I would surely present the cons to them before proceeding with anything, and get some relief in writing if they stand their ground.

 

[nizak]

Sounds like a problem for the GC and the customer not the electrician. Can the hole in the flooring for the receptacle be cut larger than the box allowing the floor to move?

Are these floor outlets mandatory? Two places in the code require floor outlets. One is when fixed glass doors extend out over six feet so that there must be a floor outlet installed within 12" inches of the glass panels , or picket walls or some other style that is still considered wall space.
The other requirement comes into play in conference rooms, but usually for them there is "most times" another floor below with a drop ceiling where you can install poke thru outlets. There seem to be no exceptions for either when it comes to existing slab on grade , once the remodeling of the room is started.

So what I'm trying to get at is do the outlets really need to be in those locations or is it an owner's wish to have that feature. If so then I would surely present the cons to them before proceeding with anything, and get some relief in writing if they stand their ground.

It’s an open floor plan great room. They are not a code requirement where they are placed but are needed for lamps that will be part of the furniture layout.
They will have a couch placed over each.

There is literally no other option for getting power to these two spots.

Closest wall receptacles are 10+ ft from the lamps.

Extension cords are not an option.

 

[infinity]

It’s an open floor plan great room. They are not a code requirement where they are placed but are needed for lamps that will be part of the furniture layout.
They will have a couch placed over each.

There is literally no other option for getting power to these two spots.

Closest wall receptacles are 10+ ft from the lamps.

Extension cords are not an option.

Sounds like the clients wants and needs these receptacles so it's not the electricians problem. They have a few options, one they could just accept the floor without the warranty, two choose a non-floating floor, or three let the floor guy come up with a way to box around the receptacles so that they don't interfere with the floating floor.

 

[nizak]

Sounds like the clients wants and needs these receptacles so it's not the electricians problem. They have a few options, one they could just accept the floor without the warranty, two choose a non-floating floor, or three let the floor guy come up with a way to box around the receptacles so that they don't interfere with the floating floor.

That’s correct.
I’ve passed it on to the GC. He said I should deal with it since it’s an electrical issue.

I gave him the option that if he wants them installed in the “floating floor “ he will sign a form that I prepare stating I have no responsibility for any part of the install other than the device is wired properly and functioning at time of inspection

No reply yet

 

[James L]

Depending on what kind of floating floor it is, and how thick it is, You might be able to mount a cut inbox to the floating floor without going through it

 

[winnie]

The GC is going to need to sit down with @nizak and the floor guy.

The flooring guy should know how to deal with the interface between the floating floor and 'other stuff' so that the floating floor works properly. I mean rooms have walls and steps that are fixed in place. Some rooms have access panels in the floor.

The floor guy is going to need to provide a specification that @nizak can work with, describing how much expansion space must be allowed by the cover plate, how much pressure the cover plate can apply, etc.

Or the floor guy will need to install something like the trim for an access panel, except that instead of an access panel that opens there is just a small fixed in place bit of floor where the receptacle goes, and the trim takes up the required floor motion from the rest of the floor.

 

[Fred B]

They make ones that will allow for floor movement/floating, it has an in/out adjustment and the flange screws onto subflooring not the finished floor. I install these floor boxes all the time that allow for free float of flooring and outlet being covered properly. It just makes for a larger floor cover plate than some might otherwise see or want. They come with the ability to have LV, USB as well as normal voltage with an In Use cover. Handy for use with center of room end table light placement and USB phone charging.

 

[nizak]

They make ones that will allow for floor movement/floating, it has an in/out adjustment and the flange screws onto subflooring not the finished floor. I install these floor boxes all the time that allow for free float of flooring and outlet being covered properly. It just makes for a larger floor cover plate than some might otherwise see or want. They come with the ability to have LV, USB as well as normal voltage with an In Use cover. Handy for use with center of room end table light placement and USB phone charging.

Do you have a part # for the item your talking about?

 

[roger]

If someone has hired a GC it's the GC's responsibility to give the customer what they want, not the subs. If the customer wants receptacles in the floor, a hand rail hanging from ceiling, a faucet in the living room, etc... and there is not a code reason prohibiting it the GC will have to come up with a solution, end of story.

As a sub all instructions had to come from the GC. Contractually if we did an extra at the owners instructions instead of the GC there was a better than average chance that we would not be paid. IOW's, our contract was with the GC not the owner.

 

[Fred B]

Do you have a part # for the item your talking about?

some options I've used, others out there
Arlington FLBR5420MB
Leviton PFTR2
Arlington FLBAF101

 

[nizak]

Do you have a part # for the item you’re talking about?

LVP is already installed. When you speak of screwing the flange to the sub floor I’m assuming I’m beyond that option?

 

[Knightryder12]

That floor will not move more than an 1/8" in the long direction. Just make sure there is at least an 1/8th of an inch space from the floating floor to the actual box. The cover should cover that gap.

 

[Little Bill]

The flooring guy should know how to deal with the interface between the floating floor and 'other stuff' so that the floating floor works properly. I mean rooms have walls and steps that are fixed in place. Some rooms have access panels in the floor.

I've put down a couple of these type floors in my own house. The instructions are pretty much the same as putting in hardwood floor. That is they need 1/4" space on the sides and ends to any fixed wall, or object.
So if the cover plate could be screwed to the box instead of the floor, I see no reason a 1'4" gap around the box wouldn't work.

 

[Fred B]

LVP is already installed. When you speak of screwing the flange to the sub floor I’m assuming I’m beyond that option?

Not really, I've installed post laminate.