Florida no longer requires license?

[Chris J]

There is no reason that homeowners should be prevented from installing their own plug in outdoor landscape lighting. Find a new niche to work.

And for what it is worth Peter is a professional, he is licensed in an area that requires four years to obtain it.

Again, this isn't about preventing or allowing a homeowner to install their own lighting. Homeowners have always been allowed to install low voltage lighting for themselves, if they so choose, and nothing about that has changed. This conversation is about whether or not someone should be licensed before they contract to do the work for a homeowner.

 

[Chris J]

I work for a licensed and insured contractor and I am licensed myself, as Iwire pointed out. Again, a license does not guarantee quality and safe work. You want to hang your hat on a license and that's fine. But don't pretend it has anything to do with quality work. It has everything to do with protecting your economic interests. It has limited your competition until now and that's why you don't like this Florida law change. Come on Peter.... If that's the case, then what's the point in your license, or the company you work for? I'm not questioning your skills, talent nor your professionalism. In fact, I respect my boundaries as a licensed low voltage contractor, and I don't cross the line when it comes to anything involving the primary side (120v) of my lighting systems. If I need a new circuit added, modifications to a circuit or even something as simple as a GFCI receptacle switched out, I have a licensed electrician that works with me and I hand that work over to him. Could I change out that receptacle on my own? Certainly. Am I licensed to do it? No! However, under your theory, I shouldn't need a license..... right?



It's not building a power plant or high rise building. It's landscape lighting. :lol: If it has a transformer that plugs into the wall as many landscape systems do, there is no requirement for a license to install it in my area nor should there be.
So I guess my work is less "technical" than yours and pretty much anyone can do it? :happyno: If that's the case, prove it!! Let's see some photos of the great work you have done in the landscape lighting arena. I don't doubt that there are others outside of the specialized "landscape lighting trade" that have talent, but from the way you are talking I truly don't think you are one of those people. No offense.

We don't have these types of contractors in my area for the most part so it's irrelevant. Electrical contractors do everything electrical where I live. Some might specialize in landscape lighting but they are few and far between, it's not a big industry here. As for competing with them - any contractor would have trouble competing with a specialty contractor so what's your point?

I guess I don't have a point, other than simply asking for a little respect. The license that electrical contractors carry would obviously include low voltage work. But in my region, low voltage lighting is a huge industry but most of the electricians around here don't want anything to do with it. They look down their nose at us, pretty much the same way you are doing. It really doesn't matter though. License or not, the good lighting contractors can rebuke pretty much any hack's credibility with a simple portfolio and a reference list.

 

[Chris J]

do they actually make you pull a LV permit in Jacksonville? We got two permits in J-ville last week for commercial jobs and I don't even remember seeing a LV section on it.

I can think of maybe 2-3 times in the last several years we had to pull a LV permit in Florida. I want to say it was south FL also?


Anyway, I don't think the new law is going to hurt anyone.

I think you are right.... it's not going to really hurt anyone, and I'm not necessarily stressed about it. As far a permits, no permits are required that I know of around N.E. Florida. I hear that the DBPR inspectors used to be much more proactive than they have been around here in searching for, and handing out citations, to unlicensed contractors in mid and South Florida. I've never had a problem, except the occasional reprimand from an inspector for not properly displaying my license number at trade shows or on advertising materials. Seems like I put a target on my back when I got my license. Before I had a license, I never heard a peep out of any city or state official.

 

[JFletcher]

I guess I don't have a point, other than simply asking for a little respect. The license that electrical contractors carry would obviously include low voltage work. But in my region, low voltage lighting is a huge industry but most of the electricians around here don't want anything to do with it. They look down their nose at us, pretty much the same way you are doing. It really doesn't matter though. License or not, the good lighting contractors can rebuke pretty much any hack's credibility with a simple portfolio and a reference list.

Most electricians here dont want anything to do with v/d/v; either they dislike the work or say there's no money in it. Specialists in subsets of electrical work can make a good living at it.

 

[hbiss]

On my opinion about the only thing LV licensing does is generate revenue for the municipality or state. And for the little the NEC has to say about LV, that would be covered by inspections- if you are a professional you would have your work inspected if required anyway. LV licensing doesn't stop the hacks, IT guys or owners who buy material at Home Depot or online and work at night after a project is finished. That's why ECs say there is no money in it. That's why I no longer do LV wiring which used to account for a large percentage of my business. No licensing here in NY, just customer's being cheap and a proliferation of jack legs who are happy to work for nothing.

Chris, if you are as creative and professional as you say you are then you need to capitalize on that asset as long as you can. You are always going to have competition and you can't rely on government to reduce it, in this case through licensing. As I said, LV licensing is something that should never have been in the first place.

-Hal

 

[Chris J]

I don't necessarily disagree with your statements. Licensing in the LV field is relatively useless, especially around here because no one really enforces it and, as you mentioned, there will always be the hacks. But I did shell out a lot of money to get it and renew it over the years, and I'm fairly shocked that they would resend the bill and lose the revenue that the state was getting because of it. I don't see how this change will affect my bottom line either. Yes, there may be a few individuals who might have avoided the trade because of the licensing requirements in the past, but I don't see those individuals as any kind of threat. I've established myself over the past 16 years, and I have thousands of customers who keep a steady stream of new work coming my way because of "word of mouth advertising." I would be interested in hearing Mike Holt's opinions on the matter. He may or may not be in the training game these days, but he did have a revenue stream at one point helping guys prepare for the state test for all manners of limited energy licensing.

And just for the record, I don't rely on my license or help from the government to limit my competition at all. If I did, I would have been out of business long ago.

 

[mgookin]

The legislature is not getting rid of the LV license.
You just don't need it to install landscape lighting (if the bill passes).

 

[hbiss]

I don't necessarily disagree with your statements. Licensing in the LV field is relatively useless, especially around here because no one really enforces it and, as you mentioned, there will always be the hacks. But I did shell out a lot of money to get it and renew it over the years, and I'm fairly shocked that they would resend the bill and lose the revenue that the state was getting because of it. I don't see how this change will affect my bottom line either. Yes, there may be a few individuals who might have avoided the trade because of the licensing requirements in the past, but I don't see those individuals as any kind of threat. I've established myself over the past 16 years, and I have thousands of customers who keep a steady stream of new work coming my way because of "word of mouth advertising."

So your beef really is that you spent a lot of money and effort on licensing and now they made that all useless, right?

I wish I had the money that I spent on things that later became useless...

-Hal

 

[Chris J]

So your beef really is that you spent a lot of money and effort on licensing and now they made that all useless, right?

I wish I had the money that I spent on things that later became useless...

-Hal

No, not necessarily. I still believe that licensing would further separate the true professional from those who just want to do it as a "side gig", but I'm not getting into that argument again. Contrary to popular belief (on this forum anyway), it seems to make a difference to my potential clients when I tell them I am licensed, as required, by the state. It also seems to matter to them that I have liability insurance as well as worker's compensation. I guess it would be safe to assume that all of these "little details" have some kind of impact on a consumer's decision making process, but hey..... what do I know?

 

[iwire]

I guess it would be safe to assume that all of these "little details" have some kind of impact on a consumer's decision making process, but hey..... what do I know?

Of course they do and they can still choose to hire someone with your knowledge and "details" but is this not a choice for the consumer to make not the state?

 

[mgookin]

No, not necessarily. I still believe that licensing would further separate the true professional from those who just want to do it as a "side gig", but I'm not getting into that argument again. Contrary to popular belief (on this forum anyway), it seems to make a difference to my potential clients when I tell them I am licensed, as required, by the state. It also seems to matter to them that I have liability insurance as well as worker's compensation. I guess it would be safe to assume that all of these "little details" have some kind of impact on a consumer's decision making process, but hey..... what do I know?

You now have the option of maintaining that license and insurance, or dropping it.
I'd think that you're more marketable by having it.

I respect your concern as would anyone whose profession has that experience.

 

[Chris J]

Of course they do and they can still choose to hire someone with your knowledge and "details" but is this not a choice for the consumer to make not the state?

It is, has always been and will continue to be the consumer's choice as to whom they wish to hire. Even though a license has always been required for a contractor to install low voltage lighting, there has always been many, many contractors who never bothered to comply with state law and obtain proper licensing. My point is this: Forget that you are remotely affiliated with the electrical or limited energy industry. You are just an average consumer who would like to have landscape lighting installed, and you ask for quotes from 2 different companies.... One of them has a state license and numerous other credentials, while the other has a lawn mower in the back of his truck and little to no positive references or portfolio..... Who would you be more inclined to hire? Personally, I would go with the guy who has a license, and I'd probably pay a higher price because of just that fact alone. Whether the license really means much at all, it's all about perception in the eyes of the consumer. True value is not always the lowest price, and my target market is the higher end client who is willing to pay more because of his trust in the person doing the work. I know this fact because I see it every day when I'm the highest bid, yet I still close the deal.

 

[Coppersmith]

This is the part of the bill I'm not too fond of:

(present law) Section 489.103(9), F.S. (also referred to as the “Handyman Exemption”), provides an exemption to Part I for any work or operation of a casual, minor, or inconsequential nature in which the aggregate contract price for labor, materials, and all other items is less than $1,000.

(new stuff) "The bill adds an exemption to Part I for an employee of an apartment community or apartment community management company who makes minor repairs to existing electric water heaters or to existing electric heating, venting, and air-conditioning systems."

Handymen may be handy, but they are not very dandy when it comes to doing electrical work correctly. I fix a lot of problems created by handymen. (Recently had a handyman permanently wire a dishwasher with lamp cord. He also reverse wired receps in the kitchen.) At least before I could complain they weren't allowed to do the work. Apparently now, they are in large apt complexes.

BTW "minor repairs" less than $1000?

 

[Chris J]

Exactly..... And as far as the $1k limit...... I don't leave my couch for at least $2k minimum. I'm not trying to be arrogant; I've just found that anything less is just a waste of time with a prospect that will not hire me 80% of the time. It's just a fact.