For those of you who are following the Tesla/Musk solar PV roof tiles

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GoldDigger said:
Update with some nice pictures, but no hard technical information
http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-solar-roof-solar-city-features-2017-4
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yeah, a lot of vaporware about this.

i'm curious about the power output of the slate ones.
i contacted them about their roof tiles and the power
storage a few months ago.

it might be worth doing it, if i could get listed as an
installer, and see what wholesale on the tiles and
power brick is.

i have a feeling it's gonna be awful 'spensive.
 
Fulthrotl said:
yeah, a lot of vaporware about this.

i'm curious about the power output of the slate ones.
i contacted them about their roof tiles and the power
storage a few months ago.

it might be worth doing it, if i could get listed as an
installer, and see what wholesale on the tiles and
power brick is.

i have a feeling it's gonna be awful 'spensive.
Click to expand...

Might make for a nice diverse green business.
Energy certifications to pay the bills and solar roof installation for variety. :)
My fear is that they will be tied to one installation contractor, like Solar City, for example.
 
GoldDigger said:
Might make for a nice diverse green business.
Energy certifications to pay the bills and solar roof installation for variety. :)
My fear is that they will be tied to one installation contractor, like Solar City, for example.
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Notice how nothing about their performance or safety was even mentioned.. This is going to crash and burn. Of course they dont want to do a PPA. I would hope they Install these with their in house contractor only to save others from any liability. I need to see information on wiring, leakage currents/termination/AFCI, performance numbers and cost per watt.

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electrofelon said:
Do we know anything about how these interconnect?
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That's what I was saying.. Hopefully someone can shed some light here because I've heard nothing even from a solar city Installer (crew lead) I know. They just know it's coming and to expect it, nothing else.

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Once they get them down to 40 cents/watt (which will be soon)...wow.

One thousand shingles would be a 6-kilowatt system, which is about the average size. But each shingle requires a + and a – wire connector, implying 2,000 connectors for 1,000 shingles. That's too many points of failure, and too many small shingles to install manually.
So Tesla will probably take the same approach as other companies and make a shingle assembly that has about 24 individual cells (a total of 132 watts per assembly), all of which would look like individual shingles. This shingle assembly would then have a pair of +/- wire connections and a junction box with an integrated optimizer (needed for rapid shutdown requirements). There will be a total of about 45 solar shingle assemblies.


Now let’s look at simple paybacks for four options (assuming the ITC applies to the entire project, which may not be the case with non-solar roofing work), all of which have the same annual savings of $2,250:

 
A few companies have already tried and failed at this. I know Musk and his followers think he's a magician but...

Code interpretation seems like a nightmare on rapid shutdown and wiring protection. The latter has been one of the failing points of other products.

PVfarmer you are right that they somehow have to address the equivalent of module assembly. Not really something you want to leave to the field workers, especially if their experience is primarily as a roofer! However with some of the styles I think they're going to have issues with a 24 cell module, and with others I don't see where an optimizer as we've known them can possibly go.

There are other fundamental issues. Having your roofing material integrated into your solar array is not a good thing, in my opinion. When one function fails you have to service both and you have to pay for someone with both sets of skills, which is someonewho barely exists right now. Tesla's products have no track record as a roofing product. And I can't really forgive Musk's snobbery about appearances. I mean, nearly nobody has a slate roof, that's a luxury item by itself. And while maybe 5 percent of solar customers care that much for aesthetics, his comments potentially increase that number and make sales a bit more difficult for conventional systems.
 
jaggedben said:
There are other fundamental issues. Having your roofing material integrated into your solar array is not a good thing, in my opinion. When one function fails you have to service both and you have to pay for someone with both sets of skills, which is someonewho barely exists right now. Tesla's products have no track record as a roofing product. And I can't really forgive Musk's snobbery about appearances. I mean, nearly nobody has a slate roof, that's a luxury item by itself. And while maybe 5 percent of solar customers care that much for aesthetics, his comments potentially increase that number and make sales a bit more difficult for conventional systems.
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The very first one I know of in Southeast RI went in recently...
And I'm gonna guess it happened because a super rich person wanted the bragging rights.

I do know it was installed by a roofer who has an electrician employed, and not the other way 'round.

Bottom line: For sure, $70,000 to $100,000 is a lot to spend on a roof. If Tesla's roofing tiles end up priced that high, it will be because consumers will essentially be paying for long-term electricity costs up front, according to Musk’s formula. And even if Solar Roof products cost less than our estimates, it will most certainly be initially aimed at the luxury home market.
Natural slate may be the easiest alternative for Tesla to beat from a pricing perspective, since its expense is largely due to the fact that the material is very heavy and hard to work with. If the Tesla slate is lightweight and easy to install, it could be a cost-effective option.
But that’s a big if.

“Roofers aren't electricians and vice versa, so I'm most interested in seeing how the costs of labor affect the end price to consumers,” says Vikram Aggarwal, CEO of EnergySage, an online marketplace of solar installers.


No word from Tesla on whether it will back its Solar Roof like some installers do slate—with a 100-year warranty. Or stick with a more typical 25-year warranty.
Musk ended his announcement at Universal Studios in Los Angeles by asking: “So, why would you buy anything else?" The question was rhetorical, obviously, but the answer will have a lot to do with price.
http://www.consumerreports.org/roofing/heres-how-much-teslas-new-solar-roof-shingles-could-cost/
 
GoldDigger said:
My fear is that they will be tied to one installation contractor, like Solar City, for example.
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That is in fact the main problem, as far as I can tell.
As far as I know, normal human customers would in fact prefer another actual human being to contact them and perhaps inform them that 2 of the 4 options shown on the fancy-shmancy site are NOT in fact available yet.

Call me old-fashioned? :huh:
What's up with the italic part? Sounds kinda ominous.

By clicking here, I agree that SC can contact me via automated technology and/or pre-recorded messages using the number provided. I understand that this consent is not required to make a purchase.
http://www.solarcity.com/residential/solar-roof
 
jaggedben said:
Code interpretation seems like a nightmare on rapid shutdown and wiring protection. The latter has been one of the failing points of other products.
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Right! Clearly no one invited firfighters to the product development round table. They aren't going to like the fact that the array could be virtually indistinguishable from the roof. Adding rapid shutdown sounds like an expensive PITA.
 
SolarPro said:
Right! Clearly no one invited firfighters to the product development round table. They aren't going to like the fact that the array could be virtually indistinguishable from the roof. Adding rapid shutdown sounds like an expensive PITA.
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Wonder what's going to happen when Fred Firefighter whips out his ax to vent the attic? "Surprise, surprise!" <<Gomer Pyle voice>>
 
Wonder how this will work in states like Illinois, where you have to have a state roofers license to install roofs?
 
GoldDigger said:
Might make for a nice diverse green business.
Energy certifications to pay the bills and solar roof installation for variety. :)
My fear is that they will be tied to one installation contractor, like Solar City, for example.
Click to expand...

well, i put a contact request in via the website.

i've not looked closely at the vendor vetting path, as it seems there isn't one.
it seems to be a solar city thing.....

in the next couple years, i'm going to have to do a roof on my house.
if there's a good system, i would be looking at it, but....

if it's a YUUUUGE install cost, that isn't gonna happen obviously.
i'm suspecting tesla may very well price themselves well above
the marketplace.
 
There has been no price point on this product yet. Always the goal of $.40/W but no inital cost. What I have read there will be a lot of connections to be made on the back side as these are smaller than regular panels. Not sure if they'll be made behind the roofing material or inside the attic. Rumor is it could be hundreds.
 
Chamuit said:
There has been no price point on this product yet. Always the goal of $.40/W but no inital cost. What I have read there will be a lot of connections to be made on the back side as these are smaller than regular panels. Not sure if they'll be made behind the roofing material or inside the attic. Rumor is it could be hundreds.
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I saw an estimate that the average roof will need about 1,000 shingle. So, 2,000 connections, minimum, before you start talking about strings and such.
 
jaggedben said:
There are other fundamental issues. Having your roofing material integrated into your solar array is not a good thing, in my opinion. When one function fails you have to service both and you have to pay for someone with both sets of skills, which is someone who barely exists right now. Tesla's products have no track record as a roofing product. And I can't really forgive Musk's snobbery about appearances. I mean, nearly nobody has a slate roof, that's a luxury item by itself. And while maybe 5 percent of solar customers care that much for aesthetics, his comments potentially increase that number and make sales a bit more difficult for conventional systems.
Click to expand...

the whole thing with this obviously, is the curb appeal.
the folks four doors down from me put an array on the
street side of their roof. it's uglier than a mud fence. that
is just being honest. could have been put on the side
of the house, and the yield would have been the same.

so, doing it is something i'd like to do if it can be done
within reason.

as far as lowering my energy consumption, i can accomplish
far more with a heat exchanger that pulls the heat out of my
attic, and heats the pool water with it.

that eliminates running the 400k btu pool heater, and running
an air conditioner as well. but it's a mile off topic, as usual.. :p

http://www.solarattic.com/index.htm
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Wonder how this will work in states like Illinois, where you have to have a state roofers license to install roofs?
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Good point. In California a C-10 (Electrical) or C-46 (Solar) contractor would probably be on shaky ground to install this without involving a C-39 (Roofer), and vice versa. Of course SolarCity has a GC license so they don't care. Indeed, my feeling is that this stuff is too ambitious for any project that isn't already being done through a GC, i.e. new construction or extensive remodel.

Fulthrotl said:
the whole thing with this obviously, is the curb appeal.
the folks four doors down from me put an array on the
street side of their roof. it's uglier than a mud fence. that
is just being honest. could have been put on the side
of the house, and the yield would have been the same.

...
Click to expand...

Is the roofing material on that house pretty? Did you ever look at the roof beforehand? Does it have any ugly vents on it?

Granted, I'm not saying you don't have a valid viewpoint, I've not seen this install. And if they're silver-on-white modules or it's just a badly designed array then sure, call it ugly. But I think most people find black-on-black modules to be as attractive if not more so than asphalt shingle. And the more common solar arrays have become in these parts it seems to me I hear less and less about bad reactions. I think a lot of people just trip all over the first one they see because they've never seen one before. Once they become common in an area people forget all about it. Most people who aren't roofing or solar contractors don't spend any time looking at other peoples roofs.
 
When you combine a PV module and a roof tile you get the worst of both worlds; an inefficient and costly PV array (temperature, connectors, logistics, licensing, etc) and a roof with a 50 year price tag but only a 25 year life span.

You would save money by just replacing your roof with 30 year architectural shingles and buying shares in a community solar garden.
 
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