Foriegn Certification

[ettek]

Question
I'm looking at Chinese manufactured EX motors to be used in both Class I Div I & II in the US. All of the requirments I have found state that a device must be "certified" or "certified by a nationally recognized body" but is not specific as to whom. These are certified by CNACL or CQST
Does anyone know where I can find any specific requirments that would state is has to be UL or FM?
Has anyone ever used Chinese built motors in a class area in the US?
Thanks
ettek

 

[rbalex]

Re: Foriegn Certification

This is a link to UL?s Online Certifications Directory

On the left-hand side enter ?PRGY? (without the quotes) in the UL Category Code frame.

It will bring up a link on the Right-hand side to the UL Guideinfo for ?Motors.? Follow that link and in the upper left-hand click on the next link to ?View Listings.? It will return a null search because neither UL, nor any other Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL) certifies general purpose motors commonly used in industrial applications. Article 430 of the NEC does not require motors to be certified.

Go back to the Guideinfo page and scroll down to the ?Related Products? section and follow the respective links to ?PTDR? and ?PTHE.? Repeat the ?View Listings? exercise for each of them. You will find several manufactures that make ?Division 1? motors and a very limited number that make ?Division 2.? This is because the NEC does not require motors to be ?certified? for Division 2 - but Division 1 motors are required to be.

Going back to the original question, neither CNACL nor CQST are NRTL?s under US FedOSHA. See this FedOSHA page for a list of qualified NRTLs.

 

[ettek]

Re: Foriegn Certification

Thanks for the reply
So as I see it. Yes they can bring the motors in, but, if an incedent occurs because of these motors, the customer (purchaser) will have no leg to stand on from a liability point of view. It's not an NEC code violation but an OSHA violation?
I greatly appreciate your input.
ettek

 

[rbalex]

Re: Foriegn Certification

First, of course, I don?t know what State or States you intend to install the equipment in. FedOHSA may or may not have jurisdiction. If they don?t, you will need to check the individual State?s requirements. However, most States that are not under FedOSHA jurisdiction still have similar requirements.

Also both FedOSHA and the several independent State OSHAs tend to enforce on an ?exception? basis; i.e., they are usually ?reactive? rather than ?proactive.? They have the authority to be proactive ? they just don?t usually have the resources.

Having said all that, I?ll refer you to a couple of additional FedOSHA pages in the ?Electrical? Section of 29CFR1910.

The first is a general Section [ 1910.303(a) ] on the ?Approval? of equipment and installations. Note the term ?acceptable.?

There is also a link there from the Section Number to various FedOHSA directive and Standard Interpretations.

The second Section [ 1910.399 ] contains important definitions. Read the definitions for acceptable, accepted, and approved carefully. You may draw your own conclusions; but my interpretation (from sub-part (i) of the definition of acceptable) is that if a product can be certified, it must be.

 

[ettek]

Re: Foriegn Certification

I agree about the need for the certification, the question is by who. I have followed your links and thank you for the learning.
Also looking at Specific References to OSHA Standards Requiring NRTL Approval web page
I don't see Ex Motors as being listed as requiring a specific body. Am I reading this correctly or just being too hopefull.
This equipment is portable as they are land drilling rig packages and may be contracted anywhere in the US, so tracking state requirements would be tricky. There are over 50 units being built.

Another quick question, different subject, would a portable structure have to have the same condition 2 clearance requirement as would a fixed building? I have 38" in front of one 480V MCC to a metal wall.

 

[rbalex]

Re: Foriegn Certification

Reread the Forward:

NOTE: Only one reference is generally cited for each type of product that requires NRTL approval. References may not necessarily reflect the exact current text of cited provision. Approval by an NRTL is denoted in various ways, such as by use of the words approved, listed, labeled, or even designation to a test standard.

AND read the very last line that references the Section [303(a)] that I mentioned in my last reply.

NEC [2005] 501.125 requires motors in Division 1 either be ?identified? for Class I, Division 1 or to be one of the other installation methods listed in Subsections (2) through (4). As you have described it so far, applying the Subsections does not appear to be appropriate. However, ?identified? is a defined term in the NEC and it DOES NOT necessarily require listing or labeling ? no matter how strongly the FPN may imply it. Nevertheless, you will have difficulty with AHJs that are unfamiliar with the equipment - and rightly so. I am personally quite familiar with Hazardous Location installations and I doubt I?d accept it without qualified third-party certification.

Personally, I would suggest getting a NRTL with field services capabilities, such as UL, FM or ITSNA to ?label? it. I happen to know ITSNA is quite reasonable. Any of them can ?certify? a prototype and the certificate can apply to all of them that are fabricated the same way.

As to your last question, ?work space? is ?work space? and it applies to prefabricated structures as well. What you have described is ?Condition 2? under Section 110.26(A) (1) and its referenced Table. That would require a 42? space; however, it can be mitigated with a non-metallic covering such as plywood or drywall. This would permit the space to be reduced to 36?.

Edit Add: As I reread this reply, it dawned on me that I should recommend having one of the NRTLs mentioned above to "label" the entire prefabricated package. I just finished having one of them certify an entire prefabricated control room/mechanical support package for two 50MW generators within the last three months.

[ December 02, 2005, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: rbalex ]

 

[ettek]

Re: Foriegn Certification

rbalex
Thank you for your most informative replies. What I've determined so far is that:
1: All of the motors are IEC "flameproof" and not NEMA frames. Unusable in the US.
2: 16 of these motors are in Class I Div I areas.
3: Of the 16 one is purged from a safe area. A large variable frequency motor with a purged junction box.
4: The remaining 15 will be replaced by the builder. They will be replaced with motors from the same manufacturer, but will be NEMA frames, and carry the UL listing. The motor manufacturer is listed by UL as being PTDR Class I, Groups C and D; Class II, Groups E, F and G capable. The root cause of this problem was the builder failed to recognize that the motors were to be used in the US and therefor needed to be US compliant.
Again, thank you for your help.
ettek

 

[rbalex]

Re: Foriegn Certification

A final note. Zone rather than Division rated equipment is acceptable in the US. NEMA ratings don?t have a monopoly. The location of installation must simply be classified per Article 505, rather than 500/501.

At least three of the NRTLs , the ones I mentioned earlier, are capable of certifying to Zone classifications.

Your current solution may still be the best in the long run. Classifying per Zones requires a PE, so theoretically you would need 55 or more of them, one for each state, DC, Guam, Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, etc. Even if a NRTL certified the package for Zones, it may prove difficult to use them in locations already classified per Divsions.

I would still recommend having a NRTL certify the package. They can tell you the conditions where they will extend a prototype's certification to subsequent units. A package certification will save a lot of local inspection grief.

 

[ettek]

Re: Foriegn Certification

So if I get a local UL representative (there are three offices here) to inspect the entire package as a whole assemby and get approval on these IEC motors and Starter boxes, then we would have all the certification that would ever be needed before these units hit US shores?
I don't want to sound repetative, I just want to make sure that I'm clear on this as it is quite a substatial investment.

[ December 06, 2005, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: ettek ]

 

[rbalex]

Re: Foriegn Certification

This is essentially correct. I would discuss it with UL and see what they are willing to do. If you can find an Intertek operation there, I'd ask them too.