springtownspark
Member
I live in a small town in Ks. about 60 miles SW of KC. Sometimes I refer to this as $10 an hour country. I was asked by a HVAC contractor to go into an Historic building owned by a lodge and hook up some new HVAC equipment. The lodge leases the main floor out on main street and just signed a lease with a big reality (possible national) company. The contractor told me he typically does his own electrical work. Everybody does in this town. All you have to do to get an Electrical Contractors license in this town is say you are one. I seriously doubt some of them can even spell electrician but they is one.
This building is over a hundred years old and the main floor has been many different types of stores. Leased out as a warehouse for storage for many years. It appeared the last time the service was updated was in the '50's when the place was a grocery store. 240v 3phase, open service conductors with the meter in the back of the store. A 200a/3phase disconnect sitting beside a 200a/single phase. Twelve feet of gutter with 10 or 12 disconnects literally hanging everywhere, most of them abandoned. The HVAC guy was scared of this one and by all rights he should've been. Hell it scared me, third generation electrician. Worked the trade over 30 years, certified master in '96. I couldn't find an equipment ground on this mess anywhere but I did see what I thought might have been one years ago. I told the HVAC guy I wouldn't hook up any equipment in this building. In my opposing I needed to demo the entire service off the east wall and start over. We met with the caretakers of the lodge and went over my concerns with them. I gave them a bid to install a new service, reconnect the slimline fixtures, recent remodeled bathroom and pick up a couple of circuits for receptacles here and there. I met with the building inspector/reserve cop/dog catcher and discussed with him my plans for this building. OK FINE, just run everything in conduit !! I had already said I intended to use EMT & MC cable. NO big deal I assured him I would do a good job. He has not really seen a lot of my work, licensing requirments are so tough I haven't done much work in this town.
I was told to meet with the carpenter that would be building partitions for offices. I met with John and he told me I needed to run conduit down to junction boxes above these offices. He was wiring these offices in romex and HE would make the connections in the junction boxes. I don't think I said a word, just turned around and left. In probably ten minuets was on the phone with the caretaker and told him there was a problem, didn't like the idea of somebody else attaching to my work especially with a method I didn't think was appropriate with offices on main street. The caretakers called an emergency meeting with the lodge to express my concerns with them and it was determined I was an SOB that was trying to work in methods that weren't required. Their plans had been submitted and approved by the building inspector, I was trying to milk the lodge of their hard earned money and I had the nerve to call myself an electrician. BYTE my a$$ suddenly the caretakers son is a licensed electrician and he's done the job, or did he? Last I heard that was over a year ago and it still isn't done but their selling real estate ! They missed my biggest concern or my biggest beef about the whole deal. IF there was a problem, who's problem, who's insurance was it?
OK whatever. Truth of the matter is I had all the material to do a nice job minus some nuts and bolts and I probably had those around the shop someplace. In my heart I gave them one hell of a bid and told them I wanted to do the work because of the historic nature of the building. The millwork in the lodge on the second floor was incredible. I didn't want to see this building burn down like so many others in this community. God as my witness I would've done just short of paying them to do the job.
OK, yes I do think a bit of myself. Or really I take great pride in being an electrician. This is not a hobby, weekend projects or DYI stuff. I really don't think carpenters or HVAC guys should be doing electrical work because they worked for a guy that worked for a guy that wired houses. Because they can make a 24v control system work, install a breaker in a panel and take a piece of romex out to a condenser. Somebody help me I'm going to short-circuit and blow a fuse. Most of us know there is a lot more to this than making a lamp work.
Common practice around this town has been to switch the neutral. I once worked in an old building somebody used green as a circuit conductor. That building really gave me the willies. One store downtown had eight circuit conductors (8-#12 black THHN) and a #8 THHN for a neutral. Branch circuit conductors in a piece of 3/4" EMT going to a rats nest of a j-box with a bunch of romex going to receptacles. One of the grounded conductors lost a connection in that dog knot of a mess under a red wire connector. All those bare grounds just floating in the box. I'm telling you I've really seem some stuff pulled around here and nobody seems to think it's that big a deal. I've threatened myself many times to send some of this stuff into illustrated catastrophes. I've also threatened myself many times to go to a city council meeting. But really nobody cares.
Seriously don't think bad of me for cracking wise about the spelling thing. I can't spell for dookey and no doubt my grammars not all that hot but I am proud of the fact I'm an Electrician and spent most of my life trying to be a better one. Some of what goes on in this rat hole just makes me sick. Who ya know an (etc.) Seen this most of my life and usually it doesn't bother me as much but this job and the fact it's still a mess really put a burr under my saddle and I'm having a hard time sitting it out. That's all folks, THANKS for being there !
(small edit)
[ April 29, 2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]
This building is over a hundred years old and the main floor has been many different types of stores. Leased out as a warehouse for storage for many years. It appeared the last time the service was updated was in the '50's when the place was a grocery store. 240v 3phase, open service conductors with the meter in the back of the store. A 200a/3phase disconnect sitting beside a 200a/single phase. Twelve feet of gutter with 10 or 12 disconnects literally hanging everywhere, most of them abandoned. The HVAC guy was scared of this one and by all rights he should've been. Hell it scared me, third generation electrician. Worked the trade over 30 years, certified master in '96. I couldn't find an equipment ground on this mess anywhere but I did see what I thought might have been one years ago. I told the HVAC guy I wouldn't hook up any equipment in this building. In my opposing I needed to demo the entire service off the east wall and start over. We met with the caretakers of the lodge and went over my concerns with them. I gave them a bid to install a new service, reconnect the slimline fixtures, recent remodeled bathroom and pick up a couple of circuits for receptacles here and there. I met with the building inspector/reserve cop/dog catcher and discussed with him my plans for this building. OK FINE, just run everything in conduit !! I had already said I intended to use EMT & MC cable. NO big deal I assured him I would do a good job. He has not really seen a lot of my work, licensing requirments are so tough I haven't done much work in this town.
I was told to meet with the carpenter that would be building partitions for offices. I met with John and he told me I needed to run conduit down to junction boxes above these offices. He was wiring these offices in romex and HE would make the connections in the junction boxes. I don't think I said a word, just turned around and left. In probably ten minuets was on the phone with the caretaker and told him there was a problem, didn't like the idea of somebody else attaching to my work especially with a method I didn't think was appropriate with offices on main street. The caretakers called an emergency meeting with the lodge to express my concerns with them and it was determined I was an SOB that was trying to work in methods that weren't required. Their plans had been submitted and approved by the building inspector, I was trying to milk the lodge of their hard earned money and I had the nerve to call myself an electrician. BYTE my a$$ suddenly the caretakers son is a licensed electrician and he's done the job, or did he? Last I heard that was over a year ago and it still isn't done but their selling real estate ! They missed my biggest concern or my biggest beef about the whole deal. IF there was a problem, who's problem, who's insurance was it?
OK whatever. Truth of the matter is I had all the material to do a nice job minus some nuts and bolts and I probably had those around the shop someplace. In my heart I gave them one hell of a bid and told them I wanted to do the work because of the historic nature of the building. The millwork in the lodge on the second floor was incredible. I didn't want to see this building burn down like so many others in this community. God as my witness I would've done just short of paying them to do the job.
OK, yes I do think a bit of myself. Or really I take great pride in being an electrician. This is not a hobby, weekend projects or DYI stuff. I really don't think carpenters or HVAC guys should be doing electrical work because they worked for a guy that worked for a guy that wired houses. Because they can make a 24v control system work, install a breaker in a panel and take a piece of romex out to a condenser. Somebody help me I'm going to short-circuit and blow a fuse. Most of us know there is a lot more to this than making a lamp work.
Common practice around this town has been to switch the neutral. I once worked in an old building somebody used green as a circuit conductor. That building really gave me the willies. One store downtown had eight circuit conductors (8-#12 black THHN) and a #8 THHN for a neutral. Branch circuit conductors in a piece of 3/4" EMT going to a rats nest of a j-box with a bunch of romex going to receptacles. One of the grounded conductors lost a connection in that dog knot of a mess under a red wire connector. All those bare grounds just floating in the box. I'm telling you I've really seem some stuff pulled around here and nobody seems to think it's that big a deal. I've threatened myself many times to send some of this stuff into illustrated catastrophes. I've also threatened myself many times to go to a city council meeting. But really nobody cares.
Seriously don't think bad of me for cracking wise about the spelling thing. I can't spell for dookey and no doubt my grammars not all that hot but I am proud of the fact I'm an Electrician and spent most of my life trying to be a better one. Some of what goes on in this rat hole just makes me sick. Who ya know an (etc.) Seen this most of my life and usually it doesn't bother me as much but this job and the fact it's still a mess really put a burr under my saddle and I'm having a hard time sitting it out. That's all folks, THANKS for being there !
(small edit)
[ April 29, 2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]
