Frusturated

[Strahan]

What a timely thread.....

Just yesterday, I had a work order to help a plant electrician troubleshoot a problem. You know who that plant electrician was? A former apprenticeship teacher who taught class the same time I went through school. I only recently turned out 6 mos. ago and thought how odd it was(and scary too), that I was showing the teacher how to troubleshoot.....

It's probably a good thing that I learned my troubleshooting skills outside of the classroom.

What I notice, is that it seems some people have the hardest time grasping the 'divide and conquer' method to troubleshooting. They start jumping around testing different parts of the circuit instead of doing it systematically and then can't remember exactly all they've checked so far.....

Very true troubleshooting can't be taught in the classroom and someone with good troubleshooting skills is hard to find. I see the state of confusion all the time most of the time the "electrician" causes this himself by getting worked up and flying all over the place. As in my original post the motor was connected to a drive that kept faulting out even if you have the slightest clue as to what is going on common sense should tell you to disconnect the load wires from the drive and see if it runs if it does wiring or motor problem if it still faults then a drive problem if it is a drive problem then I would expect to recieve a call (drive is on a device-net network). But I guess the key words would be common sense!

 

[wawireguy]

Thats because most electricians aren't trouble shooters. They are installers. Just because you went to school one time and have been in the trade 10 years doesn't mean you have the skills to troubleshoot. I work with guys like you describe. Test things at all different points, rush to conclusions and they think they know what they are doing because once in a while it works. I'm tired of working with monkeys.

 

[76nemo]

I too know where you are coming from Strahan, but I am a little different. There are MANY things I don't know, but I will ask for help, and do not look for handouts on finishing my job at hand. I lack in instrumentation. Just about everywhere I worked had an instrumentation team. Like PLC work for example,... I can interpret the programs just fine, but have never programmed one. Never had an interest in it. Security systems....? Never worked on them. I listen to some of the posts here by zog, Lazlo, GAR, and many others who stump me constantly. I don't claim to be a "know it all". There's where "nemo" comes from. "nemo" is Latin for "Nobody".

I have worked with so many so called "know it all's", that's where I coined the nickname. I lack in thermography, I lack in MV work, I lack in many, many things,...that must be obvious,....but if there is one thing I don't lack in is the interest to learn.

When I switched from electronics to electrical maintenance, I would have guys that would never give me any help in learning, like they wanted to keep all the theory to themselves. Well, after years of working in the field, I made my way to a somewhat comfortable level, but I still have 1000% of what I know now to learn. I strive to learn more, day in, and day out.

What I hate now is for someone to call for help and then walk away after you get there. How in the heck are they supposed to learn when they walk away without seeing thee outcome????

 

[Strahan]

I too know where you are coming from Strahan, but I am a little different. There are MANY things I don't know, but I will ask for help, and do not look for handouts on finishing my job at hand. I lack in instrumentation. Just about everywhere I worked had an instrumentation team. Like PLC work for example,... I can interpret the programs just fine, but have never programmed one. Never had an interest in it. Security systems....? Never worked on them. I listen to some of the posts here by zog, Lazlo, GAR, and many others who stump me constantly. I don't claim to be a "know it all". There's where "nemo" comes from. "nemo" is Latin for "Nobody".

I have worked with so many so called "know it all's", that's where I coined the nickname. I lack in thermography, I lack in MV work, I lack in many, many things,...that must be obvious,....but if there is one thing I don't lack in is the interest to learn.

When I switched from electronics to electrical maintenance, I would have guys that would never give me any help in learning, like they wanted to keep all the theory to themselves. Well, after years of working in the field, I made my way to a somewhat comfortable level, but I still have 1000% of what I know now to learn. I strive to learn more, day in, and day out.

What I hate now is for someone to call for help and then walk away after you get there. How in the heck are they supposed to learn when they walk away without seeing thee outcome????

I agree with you 100% I don't claim to know everything about electricity and I don't know if thats possible but I know someday I'll have the answer to that question, because like you I will never stop wanting to learn. thats what upsets me about these guys they have no desire to learn.

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

Thanks guys I didn't quote because I want to respond to all. I have been at this job for a little over 5 years now and yes for a long time I loved being the go to guy but that gets old quick. Yes in some cases I am being had these guys find it easier to call me then to attempt themselves but in alot of cases it amazes me because these guys do not posses many skills that the trade demands. What upsets me the most is that they know it and don't have any desire to further there training or schooling. Iam still a young pup yet but I know you can't become stale in this profession you must always look to learn more or brush up on your skills in order to be good at your job. I feel it is a personal obligation to be good at what you do I absolutly hate it when Im struggling to find a problem but I will bet you one thing I will learn what I need to so it doesn't happen again. Whenever I get a chance I have my face buried in some sort of electrical book boy you should here the comments then. Don't get me wrong we have some great electricians but there are way too many terrible ones.

What you need to do is start pushing back, and when their manager/foreman figures out they can't get the job done, it should affect their performance review. I'll bet that you're not even getinng credit, where credit is due. You need to make sure that the management there knows you're the "go to" guy and get compensated accordingly.

Let us know how things go.

 

[GUNNING]

Feel your pain

Feel your pain

Have you thought about asking for Continuing Ed programs for your department? Get manufacturer reps in to refresh the knowledge base? Or ask that you get a raise for your unique knowledge base? Ive only run into 2 or 3 control electricians in my life. The union trained, good, stable electricians around here can't run a circuit without a blue print. Which is not such a bad thing but useless when troubleshooting PLC. Asked to trouble shoot, and they would be hard pressed to complete the task.
You have out preformed your job definition. Ask for a raise and perks like CE, Tool allowance, new truck with gas allowance and 24/7 use. You might want to get back into school to be trained as an engineer at night. Penn State has a campus nearby. Maybe you could get them to send you.
It sounds like you got a great job. Time to talk to the boss. Remember, he has to submit a budget so work on him slowly. Negotiate, don't give ultimatums.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

This is a human nature issue.
Humans as a whole are very different from each other and there are groups/categories of them.

With that said, there are some who will not strive for perfection.
There are those who have no interest.
There are those who only have a job to collect a paycheck.

Once one gets that through their mind, they can deal with it in a more calm manner that will help them to be less embroiled.

Then one can seek those who are like them to help them in their career(s) and form a stronger workforce.


Something like that.............

 

[charlietuna]

If every electrician or people who call themselves "ELECTRICIANS" were knowledgable about every facit of the trade--the contractor's job would be much easier !! Our trade is full of little niches, some harder than others. Many electrical workers are brought up in the residential end of our trade and may never want, nor need to go to another level. While some enter the commercial industry and can't wire a home ! Many years ago there wasn't enough of one particular facit of work to remain there very long and Electrical workers were forced to enter and learn more to remain employed. I worked for one contractor who secialized in high rise condos for 30 years -- he had one guy who just did meter banks --moving from building to building ! I am sure this guy has never seen a variable speed drive and probably never will! I had an instructor who taught me transformers and he was a serviceman in the trade -- afterwords he was my foreman ! On this job we had to hook up three single phase transformers in a three phase configuration. He said he was awaiting the paperwork on wiring up the transformers -- i told him they were wired and energized !!! He asked me how i wired them?? I told him "THE WAY YOU TAUGHT ME!". And he was a very good instructor ! One of the biggest jobs of a contractor or foreman is placing your employees at work where they can be productive and happy(if possible)?

I have worked on drives since they first arrived on the market--many different manufacturers -- they are confusing to me every time! There are just too many variables and applications---plus i don't get along with computerized "STUFF"! But i've installed hundreds of them--they are money savers to my customers and have provided a large income to our company due to other contractors shying away from them. Much of our work includes working with maintainance electrical workers --- if they were real good "ELECTRICIANS" they would be working in the trade, not a building and making a much higher salary !! I never look down at anyone's knowledge or lack of it---it's part of our trade,as well as those who act "DUMB AS A FOX" to get out of work. But i fine a way to work them as much or maybe even more than the guy who applies himself !!! my $.02

 

[ITO]

Business is about people.

Not everyone is created equal as far as skill and intelligence goes. The key to leading men is to find what people do well and to get them doing that. Not all my guys are good trouble shooters and not all are good mechanics. The rare few that are good at everything and have some leadership skills are foremen and sometimes become competitors.

I have guys that could not troubleshoot a 3-way but give them a table bender, a threader and a stack of 4? GRC and they will build pipe racks so pretty the owner will call my shop to tell me how impressed he is with my work. You know the kind, were all the couplings line up even around 90s and look so good they make the other trades poor work stand out by comparison.

There are guys on my service crew who IMHO borderline genius and even do data and fire alarm but completely embarrass me when they bend pipe.

Then there are guys who are really good at layout and planning but don?t do such a great job at leadership. These guys are great for chasing masons and rough-in crews and get a lot of production done.

My backhoe operator is not that great of an electrician but he can make that backhoe dance and will even jump off the backhoe and get in the ditch use a shovel, lay pipe, finish concrete and build perfect pole bases. This guy and one helper do all my underground and concrete work and make my deadlines and have never failed an inspection.

Just my thoughts on it but people are not perfect and not everyone has the same skill sets just because you think some electrician is lacking does not mean they don?t have something to offer. It?s easy to see what somebody is lacking, the real skill is seeing what they have to offer and get them doing that.