Fun with Dual Function Breakers, GE

[DamonV]

Ok, I have a situation here. I have (4) Dual function breakers that are continually tripping ( 20A GE ). The most interesting part is that one of them is tripping when it is in the panel, but with nothing else connected. I put a meter in series between the N pigtail and the N bus to see what was up and read as much as 0.4A when it is tripping. If someone can explain how this is possible, without the breaker being bad, I would love to hear it. I did replace the breaker w/ another one and it does the exact same thing.....I'm thinking it has to be the breaker, but I'm not sure how many I have to buy to get a good one......

 

[LarryFine]

Welcome to the forum.

Are you saying that the breakers are tripping with no wires attached to their load terminals?

If so, that can only be defective breakers, weirdness on the incoming power, or strong RF nearby.

 

[DamonV]

Yes, nothing attached to the load terminal. I can only assume then that I have some insulation short inside the breaker that is intermittent. I can't think of what else would cause the 0.4A I am reading when it trips.

 

[synchro]

The most interesting part is that one of them is tripping when it is in the panel, but with nothing else connected. I put a meter in series between the N pigtail and the N bus to see what was up and read as much as 0.4A when it is tripping.

Yes, nothing attached to the load terminal. I can only assume then that I have some insulation short inside the breaker that is intermittent. I can't think of what else would cause the 0.4A I am reading when it trips.

An internal SCR will fire and drive a solenoid coil to trip the mechanical breaker mechanism. That will draw a pulse of current through the neutral pigtail. But that current should only be present for a short time.

 

[DamonV]

An internal SCR will fire and drive a solenoid coil to trip the mechanical breaker mechanism. That will draw a pulse of current through the neutral pigtail. But that current should only be present for a short time.

So you are saying the current I am seeing is the result and not the cause?

 

[hbiss]

Yup.

The only time those things will make you happy is from the sound they make hitting the bottom of the dumpster.

-Hal

 

[synchro]

So you are saying the current I am seeing is the result and not the cause?

I'm saying that this could be the case, because the breaker's solenoid coil takes current to activate it. But like I said this current would not last very long. Can you give more detail about what meter and what settings you are using? For example, are you setting it to min/max?

 

[DamonV]

Fluke 117, yes min/max on max. had to do that so I could see it. So it is a quick burst. Still what could be causing the solenoid to fire?

 

[hillbilly1]

You can have current from the internal electronics. The early versions created quite a bit of heat with no load.

 

[DamonV]

I'm saying that this could be the case, because the breaker's solenoid coil takes current to activate it. But like I said this current would not last very long. Can you give more detail about what meter and what settings you are using? For example, are you setting it to min/max?

Fluke 117, yes min/max on max. had to do that so I could see it. So it is a quick burst. Still what could be causing the solenoid to fire?

 

[ptonsparky]

Are you pressing the test button at the time?

 

[ramsy]

Dual function breakers that are continually tripping ( 20A GE )

The only time those things will make you happy is from the sound they make hitting the bottom of the dumpster.

The Internet wont help you.
Get on the phone with tech-support.

 

[DamonV]

Are you pressing the test button at the time?

I am not

 

[Slowmo079]

Confirmed by Art at GE - the the 20amp DF GE Breakers are garbage - avoid installing them, they will nusciance trip and show a fault code for an arc fault. GE knows this and they claim to have a new one designed but cannot get the chips made to build them.

 

[hbiss]

Confirmed by Art at GE - the the 20amp DF GE Breakers are garbage - avoid installing them, they will nusciance trip and show a fault code for an arc fault. GE knows this and they claim to have a new one designed but cannot get the chips made to build them.

So what do you do, tell the inspector that Art said it was ok to install regular breakers?

-Hal

 

[Fred B]

Confirmed by Art at GE - the the 20amp DF GE Breakers are garbage - avoid installing them, they will nusciance trip and show a fault code for an arc fault. GE knows this and they claim to have a new one designed but cannot get the chips made to build them.

So what do you do, tell the inspector that Art said it was ok to install regular breakers?

-Hal

Inspector may want written statement from GE to that effect. Might hold up certificate from being issued until proper installation can be completed, but might let a temporary or limited authorization be given.
Side note, one more reason to not like GE.