G.E.C. at transfer switch

D

dhsvcs

Senior Member
Location
miami
Occupation
electrician
I have a couple of questions about connecting the grounding conductor (#4 solid bare Cu) to a transfer switch with not enough connection terminals to the existing grounded neutral block and connected to a meter can fed with a pvc nipple that has the utility fed neutral and grounding lug shared/attached at the meter can. The L.J.H.A. does want the G.E.C. connected at the transfer switch. The 200 amp transfer switch has a 50 A feed from a common outdoor twistlock premade male receptacle box.
1. Does the G.E.C. need to utilize the existing bonded block, or can I get a larger grounding bar with more positions since
the disconnect switch/enclosure is bonded/connected to the enclosure anyhow..
2. Can I remove the existing bonding terminal at the transfer switch and utilize the factory tacked in angle for terminal block with more positions ?
2. Does the meter can need to have a ground wire or is the G.E C. connected at the the bonding neutral in the transfer switch sufficient ?
If you have a reference article with a pictorial diagram, I would be happy if you could reference the link...
Thanx, dhsvcs
 
dhsvcs said:
Can I remove the existing bonding terminal at the transfer switch and utilize the factory tacked in angle for terminal block with more positions ?
Click to expand...
Is this the neutral bus in the transfer switch? If so the GEC can terminate there. The GEC can also terminate in the meter enclosure if it is permitted by the POCO. Some utilities do not allow the connection in the meter.

Can you post some photos of the installation?
 
see attached...thanx
 

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The GEC needs to connect to the neutral bus but the EGC can be connected to the enclosure. That would clear up a connection point for your GEC.

Note: Remove the tag on the bond screw.
 
that is a "defective", loose, existing lug.
If I don't need to ground the meter can and add an additional wire, I will try to remove the terminal block and repair it...
Thanx, dhsvcs
 
The meter can is grounded by the neutral because that is how things are grounded on the line side of the service disconnect (neutral bar is bolted directly to the cabinet and not isolated). GEC could land there if there is a 3rd lug for it.

The GEC must land in the service disconnect, or some point upstream of that. Local jurisdictions may mandate that it be in the meter. Some disallow the meter because they say it is not accessible with a poco tie wire. So your service disconnect would normally be the transfer switch.

Where does the inspector want you to land it if not in the service disconnect?

Also, you said the transfer switch is manual. Does it have overcurrent protection in it? If not, that must be immediately adjacent to the transfer switch and on the same side of the wall.
 
Inspector wants GEC connected at the service disconnect. If I don't need to ground the meter can since the neutral/ground lug(s) in the meter is directly connected to the GEC/Ground connection, i can change the far left 2 wire lug to a 4 wire lug to complete my grounding/neutral connections. This is a repair to an old existing service where the meter can burned up and the service went less than 12 ft over a residential driveway. As originally wired, the main breaker is a 200 A main on the other side of the wall behind the 200 A transfer switch. Has an installation like this ever been legal where it could be "grandfathered" in ? The inspector wants me to add a surge suppressor in the interior main panel, which I have done. The LJHA are/is utilizing a "virtual" inspection which i had, which allowed me to change the riser with FPL disconnecting/reconnecting the overhead feed before a final inspection. The inspector did not mention the breaker being on the same side of the wall as the meter. Could this have been allowed at some time previously in the past, or is it something he may have missed ?
 
Perhaps there is confusion as to what they think the service disconnect is. The transfer switch is now your service disconnect, as transfer switches are not permitted on the line side of the service disconnect. This would then require that grounds and neutrals be separate in the old main panel and the neutral in it would be unbonded. Putting in a transfer switch ahead of the main panel causes a bunch of grief if that wasn't planned for.

It may also come down to what "immediately adjacent" means for the location of the service disconnect overcurrent device. I think most places say this implies on the same side of the wall, with the overcurrent device next to the transfer switch. Is above or below adjacent? I would say yes. How about on the other side of the wall? Some would say that's adjacent, but I don't think that was the intent of the word adjacent.

I looked at the 1981 code book, and it pretty uses the same language as 2023, so this has been in the code book a long time:
230.91 Location. The service overcurrent device shall be an integral part of the service disconnecting means or shall be located immediately adjacent thereto. Where fuses are used as the service overcurrent device, the disconnecting means shall he located ahead of the supply side of the fuses.
 
suemarkp said:
Perhaps there is confusion as to what they think the service disconnect is. The transfer switch is now your service disconnect, as transfer switches are not permitted on the line side of the service disconnect. This would then require that grounds and neutrals be separate in the old main panel and the neutral in it would be unbonded. Putting in a transfer switch ahead of the main panel causes a bunch of grief if that wasn't planned for.

It may also come down to what "immediately adjacent" means for the location of the service disconnect overcurrent device. I think most places say this implies on the same side of the wall, with the overcurrent device next to the transfer switch. Is above or below adjacent? I would say yes. How about on the other side of the wall? Some would say that's adjacent, but I don't think that was the intent of the word adjacent.

I looked at the 1981 code book, and it pretty uses the same language as 2023, so this has been in the code book a long time:
230.91 Location. The service overcurrent device shall be an integral part of the service disconnecting means or shall be located immediately adjacent thereto. Where fuses are used as the service overcurrent device, the disconnecting means shall he located ahead of the supply side of the fuses.
Click to expand...
I agree with this.
Immediately Adjacent thereto means right beside it in my opinion.
If the AHJ just needs to see it grounded like he wants it I'd do just that and hope he doesn't call me on the service overcurrent location.
 
If I get called on it by the LJHA, I could put a 200 A breaker below the meter can in route to the transfer switch....
The only question is would that change anything in regards to the GEC and neutral connections. Really don't need a neutral at the breaker enclosure, but grounding the enclosure could be tricky or I could go with a steel chase.....
I guess i will find out...
Thanx, dhsvcs
 
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