Gas appliances vs. GFI receptacles

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sceepe

sceepe

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Got a call from a client saying that the 120V circuit for the gas apliance was tripping. Claim that appliance manufacturer says electronic ignitors will trip GFI circuits. Kind of a problem in that every receptacle in a commercial kitchen has to be GFI protected. We are going to try a gfi breaker instead of the receptacle but I expect similar results. Only other solution would be to put in disconnect and hardwire it so that no receptacle is used.

Anyone else ever run into this? Why would electronic ignition trip the GFI? (Where does the 5 ma of current go)
 
sceepe said:
... Where does the 5 ma of current go ...
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If it's indeed tripping the GFCI on current (rather than igniter-induced "noise") the current has to be flowing back to the source w/o going thru the GFCI's neutral terminal.

This leaves the appliance's EGC and/or the [bonded] gas line -- and back thru the MBJ -- as the most likely alternate paths.

One cause could be a neutral-to-chassis bond somewhere inside the appliance causing the parallel neutral paths back to the source.
 
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NoVA Comms Power said:
One cause could be a neutral-to-chassis bond somewhere inside the appliance causing the parallel neutral paths back to the source.
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If that's the case, the GFI should trip as soon as it's plugged in.

sceepe said:
Claim that appliance manufacturer says electronic ignitors will trip GFI circuits.
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Sounds like the manufacturer isn't/doesn't want to keep up with current codes if it is the igniter.
 
480sparky said:
If that's the case, the GFI should trip as soon as it's plugged in.
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Unless it's a ground fault in the normally deenergized igniter circuitry somhow. (I'm really "reaching" here ... !)
480sparky said:
Sounds like the manufacturer isn't/doesn't want to keep up with current codes if it is the igniter.
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My suspicion too ... although I'm surprised any reputable appliance manufacturer would still be trying to make that claim.

In any case, the OP makes it sound like this appliance/GFCI was working fine and then one day it just started tripping ... if so something changed.

FWIW, newer GFCIs (since Jan 2003) are supposedly more resistant to noise than the earlier models.
 
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480sparky said:
If that's the case, the GFI should trip as soon as it's plugged in.
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Nope, it will only trip if there is current flow, generally that will not exceed 5 ma until a load is applied to that circuit.
 
iwire said:
Nope, it will only trip if there is current flow, generally that will not exceed 5 ma until a load is applied to that circuit.
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Would that eb why a solonid test (wiggy style) trips out a GFI?
 
I have had experience with electronic ignitions, and they can be a pain. Here's what I know:

If you have the ungrounded and grounded conductors swapped (a helper though the single receptacle was 250v), the ignitor doesn't know when the flame starts to halt the sparking.

The spark jumps from the electrode to what is eventually connected to the frame, so there is an "intentional" line-to-ground fault. I'm not sure whether this would unbalance the circuit enough.

A 'wiggy' definitely uses enough current to trip the typical GFCI; at least my K-60's do.
 
eric stromberg said:
The newer ones have a second circuit that checks for a Neutral to Ground connection downstream. The unit will trip even with no load applied.
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Learned something new, thanks. :smile:
 
Larry,
The spark jumps from the electrode to what is eventually connected to the frame, so there is an "intentional" line-to-ground fault. I'm not sure whether this would unbalance the circuit enough.
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How would that current find its way back to the system grounded conductor via the GFCI? The output of the spark igniter is some form of SDS and there should be no current back to the supply circuit. It can only return to its source.
Don
 
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