gas station cameras question

[MBSec]

I have a camera install at a new construction gas station. There are indoor cameras (no issues), cameras at the gas pumps, and cameras on light poles around the parking lot.

The inspector said that the cabling needs to be 600V rated since it is inside the light pole with the 110V light circuit (the camera has its own conduit all the way to the concrete base of the lightpole). I am using cat5, and the Belden 7958a I found is $675 a box!

My questions are:
1. Is there an easier/less expensive way to satisfy code?
2. Do I need the same cabling for the cameras mounted under the gas pump canopy (since the area is flammible)? I am running conduit down the surface of the post, with a couple feet of seal-tight up to the camera housing.
3. Could any one point me to the relevant sections in the NEC?

I'd really appreciate any comments/suggestions.

 

[480sparky]

300.3(c).

 

[Dennis Alwon]

As stated 300.3(C) is the appropriate code however, the inspector is partial correct. The insulation of the camera only needs to be as high as the largest circuit conductor. Thus if you have 120V circuit then you could get by with an insulation that is 120V or more. Usually it will be 300V or 600V , I think.

 

[sgunsel]

Check out Article 514 to determine whetjer or not you are in any classified areas.

 

[MBSec]

It is a Class 1, Division 2.

Also, the circuits for the lightpoles are 600V rated shielding, so mine would also have to be 600V. I'm just not sure if cabling in the canopy needs to be the same rating. I don't think it does, as all the high voltage is in conduit, and the cameras have their own conduit back to the panel. Any thoughts?

After my wire is run from the cameras, up the conduit and stubbed into the canopy, can my wire be 'open air' or does it ALL need to be in conduit?

 

[dbuckley]

Clipsal make Cat5 that is 5KV tested for their C-bus system, which I believe is available in the USA; ask at your local Square D / Schneider house. Clipsal Cat5 is not much more expensive than the regular stuff, though it is bright pink!

 

[nhfire77]

I have a camera install at a new construction gas station. There are indoor cameras (no issues), cameras at the gas pumps, and cameras on light poles around the parking lot.

The inspector said that the cabling needs to be 600V rated since it is inside the light pole with the 110V light circuit (the camera has its own conduit all the way to the concrete base of the lightpole). I am using cat5, and the Belden 7958a I found is $675 a box!

My questions are:
1. Is there an easier/less expensive way to satisfy code?
2. Do I need the same cabling for the cameras mounted under the gas pump canopy (since the area is flammible)? I am running conduit down the surface of the post, with a couple feet of seal-tight up to the camera housing.
3. Could any one point me to the relevant sections in the NEC?

I'd really appreciate any comments/suggestions.

RF transmitter that has 120 to 24 transformer mounted on the pole. Its probably line of site (LOS) so it will be easy.

There are so many details we don't know so this might be cheaper.

Check with ADI or Northern Video or Alarmax, describe the situation and ask for a recommendation.

Oh, you could just run from the stub up at the base to liquidtite back to PVC or EMT up the side of the light pole and then feed the camera base directly. That would be my choice if you could put the conduit on the back side of the pole.

 

[weressl]

It is a Class 1, Division 2.

Also, the circuits for the lightpoles are 600V rated shielding, so mine would also have to be 600V. I'm just not sure if cabling in the canopy needs to be the same rating. I don't think it does, as all the high voltage is in conduit, and the cameras have their own conduit back to the panel. Any thoughts?

After my wire is run from the cameras, up the conduit and stubbed into the canopy, can my wire be 'open air' or does it ALL need to be in conduit?

The cameras are unlikely to be in the Cl. I, Div. 2 location since they are normally up high, outside of the Classified location and source of ignitable mixture. However the cables MAY pass through classified areas and those portions of the cable run has to be installed according to the Classificaton provisions.

If you CHOSE to install 600V rated conductors for the 120V lighting, it is not a problem, but the insulation of all conductors only need to meet the highest service voltage within the raceway or enclosure. So 300V insulation rating for the communications/video circuits should be acceptable. I do not think - speaking from memory only - that all conductors need to meet the highest insulation level, only the highest REQUIRED insulation level.

 

[iwire]

You can not mix the video signal conductors and the power conductors in the same raceway (the pole) even if both are rated for 600 volts.

Both the power and video would have to be cables and I am willing to bet the power wiring is single conductors not cables.

See 2008 800.133(A)(2) Note the exceptions.

 

[weressl]

You can not mix the video signal conductors and the power conductors in the same raceway (the pole) even if both are rated for 600 volts.

You certainly CAN and could.

Both the power and video would have to be cables and I am willing to bet the power wiring is single conductors not cables.
See 2008 800.133(A)(2) Note the exceptions.

Exception No. 1: Where either (1) all of the conductors of the electric light, power, Class 1, non?power-limited fire alarm, and medium-power network-powered broadband communications circuits are in a raceway or in metalsheathed, metal-clad, nonmetallic-sheathed, Type AC, or Type UF cables, or (2) all of the conductors of communications circuits are encased in raceway.​

 

[iwire]

You certainly CAN and could.

Exception No. 1: Where either (1) all of the conductors of the electric light, power, Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm, and medium-power network-powered broadband communications circuits are in a raceway or in metalsheathed, metal-clad, nonmetallic-sheathed, Type AC, or Type UF cables, or (2) all of the conductors of communications circuits are encased in raceway.​

Yes, and we are not saying anything different.

The problem is the power conductors are not in metalsheathed, metal-clad, nonmetallic-sheathed, Type AC, or Type UF cables, they are very likely single conductors type THHN or RHW etc. and if they are the communication cable cannot occupy the same raceway ... in this case the pole.

Happens often around here, engineers design the job with cameras on the lighting poles and the inspectors shoot them down. It would be so helpful if engineers thought to look in the NEC before assuming they can do something.

 

[tdaniels]

Check out windy city wire for 600v rated cable

 

[iwire]

Check out windy city wire for 600v rated cable

He found 600 Volt rated communication cable, he will still need the power conductors to be of a cable type or be in a separate raceway.

 

[tdaniels]

If you can seperate them by 2 in 725.54 J which should easily be possible in a lightpole base no need to do anything special.