Gas Station

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Moosh130

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Upstate New York, USA
These are pictures from a recent gas station installation for dispenser and pump control. Another electrical contractor used a mix of old and new equipment. I am meeting with the inspector next week to give input on the code violations and what can be done to fix them. My biggest question is on the seal offs..... In my opinion the are not sealing the vapor from intruding as the seal is at the bottom of the seal off and nothing would prevent fuel vapor from leaking by the threads unless they were somehow air tight. Any input?
 

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It appears that this electrical equipment and wiring is installed in a vault. If it is, my professional opinion is to run like hell.
 
My initial thoughts were to dig up sidewalk and route conduits to gutter and install seal offs outside. Fill hole in foundation with concrete and run conduits from new gutter, through wall, and use LBs to get back into basement where electrical equipment is. They are looking for something more budget friendly, figured I'd see if anyone had ideas.
 
Seen this many times with a basement install of conduits. Should have brought conduits in level, first thread seal off, then go down to trough. I think if you filled the existing seal offs full it would seal but I doubt they are listed to be 45 degree angle. How many dispensers out front?
 
rbalex said:
It appears that this electrical equipment and wiring is installed in a vault. If it is, my professional opinion is to run like hell.
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The ladder and the raceways coming in just below the top?

How far away from the dispensers and tanks would a below-ground vault have to be to avoid classification?
 
I would agree with the others. I would add , Where are the switched neutrals in the panel?
 
GoldDigger said:
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How far away from the dispensers and tanks would a below-ground vault have to be to avoid classification?
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A long, long, long way. See Section 514.8. The key words are "... the point of emergence above grade" in the second sentence.

Historically, the Technical Committee (TC) that controls NFPA 30A (from which a good chunk of Article 514 is derived) has treated spillage at dispensers a source for Division 1 for any raceway, for any distance, that runs beneath any classified location, Division 1 or 2.
 
rbalex said:
A long, long, long way. See Section 514.8. The key words are "... the point of emergence above grade" in the second sentence.

Historically, the Technical Committee (TC) that controls NFPA 30A (from which a good chunk of Article 514 is derived) has treated spillage at dispensers a source for Division 1 for any raceway, for any distance, that runs beneath any classified location, Division 1 or 2.
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Thats very interesting. So conduits coming from a gas dispenser into a basement would make that basement an area where everything would have to be class 1?
 
wallyworld said:
Thats very interesting. So conduits coming from a gas dispenser into a basement would make that basement an area where everything would have to be class 1?
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It doesn't quite say that but it is a requirement unique in the main text of Section 514 to stub up from a underground run below classified locations. Other Sections or their Exceptions with similar underground runs only say, "... to the point of emergence." See for example, Section 501.10(A)(1)(a) Exception. BTW, that Exception refers to some other examples of Sections/Exceptions of similar underground installations.

Technically, the issue is how/where to seal an underground boundary with all the other arcane requirements of boundaries seals.

It has been a while that I am aware of any attempts to have Section 514.8 conform with the simpler requirements of other Sections/Exceptions of the NEC. It has always been rejected since the NFPA 30A TC must also concur.
 
That is quite possibly the ugliest setup I've seen for submersible relays. The dispenser power could be feed from another panel since there aren't any neutral disconnect breakers seen in the panel. But they might have just fed them with regular breakers by looking at the rest of the setup. I see there are some two pole breakers for the submersibles.

Why can you not replace those seal with vertical/horizontal seals, then run down to gutter?

The credit card/pump control wires running to the Verifone box should be a twisted pair according to Wayne and Gilbarco specs, but I don't know what dispensers your working with.

I'd be curious to see where they brought in their sump sensor, line leak, double wall sensor, and tank probe conduits also. If they have a tank monitor on site anyway.

Duke
 
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