GE combo AFCI

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peter d

peter d

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I just saw the new combo AFCI from GE today....well, actually, the breaker itself was 100% identical to a Siemens/Murray with a GE label on it. It had the same dark blue button, case, size, etc as a Siemens.

I couldn't help but wonder if GE couldn't get one on the market fast enough, so to save face they just "label slapped" a Siemens? Or they planned it this way? Either way it struck me as odd.
 
Makes sense to me... Siemens is the one who just built the big R&D facility in China. And, GE sources drives from Fuji, why wouldn't they?
 
[rant]So what does this mean if they bring their own out in a few months? The Seiman's will no longer be listed for their panels? And if the 15 / 20 amp Seimans AFCI is good enough for a GE panel why can't a standard 15 / 20A breaker be interchanged with the GE parts? Can't do it, not listed.

This whole mess with the listing of breakers is a joke anymore. A Crouse hines panel lists Bryant BR series as a suitable replacement so you would think the CH BR series would be the correct choice today, but from what I understand the correct replacement is Seimans / Murray MP.

And the classified breakers are limited in their applications too if followed to the letter of their listings.

You would think that there was a better solution than what we have now.[/rant]

FRANK
 
Frank look at the bright side. At least you are aware of the breaker listing restrictions. Most guys seem to just put in whatever fits. I keep quite a variety of breakers in my truck. Usually prepared for anything. Just bought a bunch of AFCis the other day and I have to admit for the first time I was a little nervous about leaving material in my truck.
 
electricmanscott said:
Frank look at the bright side. At least you are aware of the breaker listing restrictions. Most guys seem to just put in whatever fits. I keep quite a variety of breakers in my truck. Usually prepared for anything. Just bought a bunch of AFCis the other day and I have to admit for the first time I was a little nervous about leaving material in my truck.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the ones that have no problem making field modifications to the breakers or panels. I've seen some eye opening things done to the stabs to accommodate CTL breakers in spaces not intended for them.

How about the guys that say that the only reason that a particular breaker is not listed, is that it wasn't tested in that particular model panel but will work in all GE, Cutler Hammer etc panels. My canned reply is " how do you know that it wasn't tested and failed?"

When I come back to this world , I'm coming back as a prick and look out only for myself. In the meantime, I have to set a good example for my kids and be able to sleep at night.

FRANK
 
Counter guy at EW mentioned today that the GE rep said that Siemens is making ther AFCI's.
They also tried to sell me Siemens AFCIs for over fifty bucks. After I stopped laughing I told them that I could get them at the Depot for $35.00 and Rexel for not much more than that. Then they tried to get me to open an account.

They also asked me who was making me use combo afcis. I told them the code. The guy then starts to tell me, actually whispering like it was a state secret he was giving away, that some inspectors are not enforcing that yet. :rolleyes:
 
This months Electrical Contractor Mag, has an insert with the Siemens CD it explains how Siemens worked years to develop the dual tech breakers, I think GE is buying from Siemens. If you open your copy of Electrical Contractor and tear out the insert CD, It has the applaction of the codes.
 
satcom said:
Electrical Contractor Mag, has an insert with the Siemens CD . . .
Click to expand...
Satcom,

I found that CD interesting as well. I started a thread about it, to draw attention to a link over in a corner of the CD that lead to a really great eight page document written for the IEEE by a Siemens EE.

The document is: Arc Fault Detection and Discrimination Methods.

After plowing through the technical layout of what a Combo AFCI is doing to discriminate friend from foe, for the first time since this all got going over a half decade ago (for me), I can begin to believe that there is good science in the device. Even more importantly, I can offer an understanding of the AFCI to my clients.

I want yet more detail, however.
 
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