GE for Crouse Hinds Breaker

[frank_n]

Is it legal to substitute a GE 2-pole 50A breaker for a Crouse Hinds? If not, are there any other brands I can substitute?

frank_n

 

[peter d]

Re: GE for Crouse Hinds Breaker

I believe Crouse Hinds Distribution was purchased by Murray, and then Murray was purchased by Siemens. So a Siemens or Murray breaker is most likely the proper subsitute.

Worst case scenario, you will have to use a UL Classified breaker that is acceptable for use in a Crouse Hinds panel.

 

[izak]

i just installed siemens breakers in a crouse hinds panel.
i read the label and down at the bottom of the label it said siemens energy and automation and i said 'Good Enough'!

 

[bphgravity]

I recently had a discussion about this issue with Mark Ode from UL to get some assistance for an article I was writing on the topic of Listed, Classified, and Interchangeable Breakers. The bottom line is that even though a Murray ("MP") breaker is manufactured by the Siemens Corp., you can not install a "MP" breaker in a Siemens "Q" panel nor the other way around. ("QP" breaker in a Murray panel)

It doesn't seem to make very much sense in that they are exactly identical products, however a panelboard manufacturer must get both breakers tested and investigated for use in their panelboard in order to be acceptable and approved for use. There are least 2 manufacturer's of panelboards that are listed for use with Siemens Q and Murray M breakers. There are are each tested independently for use in the panel. (One is the Intermatic Pool Panelboard.)

 

[tonyi]

A Cutler Hammer CL250 would probably be legal.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I have seen some meter pedestals that list 4 or 5 different breakers, but as somebody else said if it doesn't say it on the lable you cannot install it.

Reason. People were going and putting the different breakers in 20 year old panels that had not been listed for the use of different breakers and arguing that it was legal since it's ok in the new ones.

"Listed and Labled."

 

[don_resqcapt19]

cowboy,

I have seen some meter pedestals that list 4 or 5 different breakers, but as somebody else said if it doesn't say it on the lable you cannot install it.

It doesn't have to say it on the panel label. If you are using a "classified" breaker the list of panels that the breaker can be used in will be supplied with the breaker. A "classified" breaker has been evaluated by UL to the same standards as the original listed breaker.
Don

 

[cowboyjwc]

From Square D "...opposes the use of Classified circuit breaker and other forms of interchangeable circuit breaker in panels not listed or labeled to accept them. Our position is based on the NEC that requires equipment to be 'used or installed in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling,'..."

Now I do have a letter from UL that says "Specific Cutler-Hammer residential circuit breaker types can be used to replace Challenger, Westinghouse, and Bryant types in equipment and loadcenters that are marked as being suitable for that of Challenger, Westinghouse, or Bryant circuit breakers."

 

[don_resqcapt19]

cowboy,

From Square D "...opposes the use of Classified circuit breaker and other forms of interchangeable circuit breaker in panels not listed or labeled to accept them. Our position is based on the NEC that requires equipment to be 'used or installed in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling,'..."

UL does not agree. It is their position that the use of a classified breaker does not violate the listing and labeling of the panel.
Don

 

[cowboyjwc]

UL doesn't have to agree.

UL isn't the one backing the warranty. I'm sure that if something happened and you had a bunch of classified breakers in one of their panels, they would just walk away.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

cowboy,

UL isn't the one backing the warranty. I'm sure that if something happened and you had a bunch of classified breakers in one of their panels, they would just walk away.

They can try to void the warranty, but federal law say that they can't if the panel is in a dwelling unit. The following is from an explanation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions
Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.