GE Raintight Panel

[FrancisDoody]

I have installed a raintight GE 8 space panel on a telephone pole to feed my pond aerators. This is an overhead two wire service. The panal is the standard main lug with an isolated neutral. I am not worried about creating parallel neutral return paths to the main panal. I have connected the equipment bonding conductors to the neutral bus. I have driven a ground rod and attached it to the neutral bus. My concern is that the metal enclosure is not bonded. The neutal bus is set on plastic mounts. Should I tap a 10-32 screw and use a lug connector to install a 6 awg bonding wire between the lug and the neutral bus?

Edited 6/27/2005 11:55am
To eliminate confusion the two wire conductor is really a three typical wire cable system made up of 2 insulated conductors and a messenger. This was not made clear in the original post.

Thanks,
Fran

[ June 26, 2005, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: FrancisDoody ]

 

[hbiss]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

This is an overhead two wire service.

Not a service at all. This is a sub panel and as such needs to have the ground conductor brought to it also.

What you are doing creates a dangerious situation, I suggest you have a licensed EC handle this for you before someone gets hurt!

-Hal

[ June 25, 2005, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: hbiss ]

 

[bphgravity]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

It appears the panelboard you have selected is not suitable for use as service equipment. That's okay, becasue you really need to install a disconnecting means before this panel. Bond the grounding electrode system to the enclosure and the feeder grounded (neutral) conductor at the disconnecting means, and the provide a separate neutral and ground to your 8-space panel. The neutrals will stay on the isolated bar and an equipment ground bar should be installed to the panel enclosure.

 

[iwire]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

Originally posted by hbiss:
This is an overhead two wire service.

Not a service at all. This is a sub panel and as such needs to have the ground conductor brought to it also.

Hal actually if it is feeder and does not have any bonded metallic paths back to the supply it does not need the grounding conductor.

If this is a feeder it sounds to me like all he has to do is bond the enclosure to the grounded conductor like he suggested.

Bryan, I do not see the need for a disconnect if this is a feeder and he only uses 6 or less OCPs in it.

 

[FrancisDoody]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

Hal I think you are way off base on your reply. First of all the code does not require a EGC to a sub panel. I admit that is how we run all of our normal installations. I think you are dangerous in your responses.

[ June 25, 2005, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: FrancisDoody ]

 

[jwelectric]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

250.32 (B) (2) Grounded Conductor. Where (1) an equipment grounding conductor is not run with the supply to the building or structure, (2) there are no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in each building or structure involved, and (3) ground-fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the supply side of the feeder(s), the grounded conductor run with the supply to the building or structure shall be connected to the building or structure disconnecting means and to the grounding electrode(s) and shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded. The size of the grounded conductor shall not be smaller than the larger of either of the following:
(1) That required by 220.61
(2) That required by 250.122

I noticed in your profile that you are not an electrician. I answered this only because other had and wanted them to see my answer.

Other than that I would never answer a do-it-yourselfer.

 

[FrancisDoody]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

jwelectric, Thank you for your response. I have no problem calculating the size of the grounded conductor. The aerial conductors only came in #2 AL. The overcurrent protection is well below the ampacity of the conductors. However you missed my original question. To bond the metal enclosure would you tap a 10-32 screw and mount a lug connector and then connect that to the neutral bus bar using a wire of appropiate size. The equipment bonding conductor as this would and should be considered is laid out for you in 250.142. Neutral to Case Bond. I am worried about the touch voltage that could be considered lethal in a damp enviorment.

By the way do you really think I am a do it yourself type?

 

[iwire]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

Originally posted by FrancisDoody:
However you missed my original question. To bond the metal enclosure would you tap a 10-32 screw and mount a lug connector and then connect that to the neutral bus bar using a wire of appropiate size.

Actually both Mike and myself answered that question.

Read the code section carefully that Mike posted.

You are required to bond the enclosure to the grounded conductor in this case.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

FrancisDoody
By the way do you really think I am a do it yourself type?
profile
Air Traffic Controller

Based on what I read, yes. Should you say something different then I will change my mind.
Will say you have a job that I don?t envy.

This would be me at your job. Adam Bravo Tango one niner niner zero reduce speed, lower flaps, bow head and pray.

 

[mdshunk]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

This guy's same question was on another board for a week or so, and he wasn't listening to reason there either.

 

[hbiss]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

I'm familiar with 250.32 and though it is permitted in this case to use the neutral as the grounding conductor I would not do it for the same reason ranges and dryers are no longer allowed to do it.

The code is a minimum requirement and just because you are allowed to do something doesn't mean that you don't have to think about the individual circumstances. This wouldn't be considered a pool but you are getting into the same type of situation.

I am worried about the touch voltage that could be considered lethal in a damp enviorment.

Exactly, that's why I would want to run a grounding conductor. I would hate to think what would happen to that pond if you lost your neutral. Are the aerators 2 wire ungrounded?

-Hal

[ June 25, 2005, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: hbiss ]

 

[redfish]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

I tend to agree with my fellow electricians,you should bite the bullet and replace your overhead conductors with tri-plex with a messenger and secure both ends with insulated house knobs.Ask your supplier, he'll know what you are talking about. By the way, how are you securing each end of your overhead now?

 

[FrancisDoody]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

I have secured my two #2 AWG al conductors with Burndy crimp on weatherproof connector (MD-6) and the messenger is hooked to the pole and the barn with insulated glass screw in eyes and the bare messenger uses a metal sleave that clamps tight with the weight of the wire.

 

[redfish]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

Why don't you use your bare messenger wire for ground?

 

[iwire]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

Originally posted by hbiss:
I am worried about the touch voltage that could be considered lethal in a damp enviorment.

Exactly, that's why I would want to run a grounding conductor. I would hate to think what would happen to that pond if you lost your neutral. Are the aerators 2 wire ungrounded?

-Hal

Hal I am very interested to hear how this risk of touch potential is any different than at a typical service.

Bob

 

[jwelectric]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

Originally posted by iwire:
Hal I am very interested to hear how this risk of touch potential is any different than at a typical service.

Bob [/QB]

Bob
This one is too easy. It is so easy that I think that you are setting me up for something. I am going to answer this so if I am way off base then don?t pound me in the ground to bad.

Article 230 and 215 will play a big part in this installation as well as 250 and 310.
After a close look at 110 and 300 and careful thoughts of 240 I do believe the biggest difference to the ?risk of touch potential? between this panel and the ?risk of touch potential? of a service is should you ever feel a difference one would happen at the house and the other would happen at the pole.
Now seeing these as being two different places technicality it would be different. What I don?t see is there being a danger.

 

[iwire]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

Originally posted by jwelectric:
Bob
This one is too easy. It is so easy that I think that you are setting me up for something.

No I am not setting anyone up.

I really do not see any difference in the level of danger presented by this feeder that the OP describes and a typical service.

 

[FrancisDoody]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

the bare messenger is the ground. Everyone else is worried about the EGC not being run with the feed

 

[FrancisDoody]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

the aerator pump is a 1/4 hp rotary vane motor wired for 230 volts in a three wire configeration. Using a tandam plug and the EGC wired to the neutral/groung rod bus

 

[FrancisDoody]

Re: GE Raintight Panel

I am sorry to everyone on this board. I believe it was my fault for giving you misleading information. I believe you thought this was a two wire feeder. Well really it is your very typical overhead service drop. A messenger and two insulated conductors strung between two points a 100 feet apart.

Sorry and I hope you excuse my lack of thought on this one.

Thank you
Fran