Generator ATS

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tshea

tshea

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Location
Wisconsin
A customer has a Generac 16kw, resi generator and a Cutler Hammer ATS service rated switch in his house.
The ATS was installed when house was built a couple years ago. He just picked up the generator.
Is anyone come across this situation? I would like to NOT replace the ATS. Not sure about the "black box" in the CH ATS nor the "black box" in the generator.
If anyone has experienced this before, I would appreciate a reply.

Thanks,
 
Don't know what the "black box" is. Possibily load management? Sounds like genset is rated for about 65 amps? In Florida, that is all the load you can put on the GEN because of automatic switching. This will be everywhere in 2008 code. Common practice is 100 amp subpanel with load sheding to rid the panel of heatstrips to allow the A/H to operate for sumertime A/C service during hurricane season.
 
Correct. Gen has a 65A breaker.
Problem is one is a Chevy the other a Ford. The CH ATS is designed for a Briggs-Stratton gen, while the Generac is designed for its own ATS.
I'm wondering if anyone has had a compatibility issue such as this.
The CH ATS has a black box with 6-8 leads. I'm almost sure there are bridge rectifiers in the black box, but gettingthe info from Cutler is well water & rocks, blood & turnips. Generac is sligtly better. I was able to download their manual. I'll take another look, but I'm not sure if I can marry the two together.
Was wondering if anyelse has seen this?
 
The black box in the ATS is most likely the voltage relays and timing. ATS' do not have to be generator specific. Get the manual for the ATS and generator look for the engine start wires. This will be either 2 wire of 3 wire start. @ wire would be more common a battery Positive and to the ATS for normally open contact (though sometimes it can be a closed contact) Normal power fails contacts close engines starts.

The black box in the engine is most likely engine controls. Often the manufacture marks the contacts terminations in the ATS and at the engine.
 
tshea said:
Correct. Gen has a 65A breaker.
... Generac is sligtly better. I was able to download their manual. I'll take another look, ...
Click to expand...
tshea,
would you mind posting the link for the Generac manual? Or please PM it to me. Thanks, it will be appreciated. e/m.
 
brian john said:
The black box in the ATS is most likely the voltage relays and timing. ATS' do not have to be generator specific. Get the manual for the ATS and generator look for the engine start wires. This will be either 2 wire of 3 wire start. @ wire would be more common a battery Positive and to the ATS for normally open contact (though sometimes it can be a closed contact) Normal power fails contacts close engines starts.

The black box in the engine is most likely engine controls. Often the manufacture marks the contacts terminations in the ATS and at the engine.
Click to expand...
Brian is dead on.
Most gensets start when a contact is closed. That's all it takes.
We've used many combinations of gensets and ATS's.The start circuit is always the easy part.
As Brian said: "Get the manual for the ATS and generator look for the engine start wires."
 
Cavie said:
Don't know what the "black box" is. Possibily load management? Sounds like genset is rated for about 65 amps? In Florida, that is all the load you can put on the GEN because of automatic switching. This will be everywhere in 2008 code. Common practice is 100 amp subpanel with load sheding to rid the panel of heatstrips to allow the A/H to operate for sumertime A/C service during hurricane season.
Click to expand...


Cavie can you give me a code reference on this? What do you mean about the 65 amps and automatic switching? Are you saying you cant have a 100 amp ATS in a resident in FL? I am confused.
 
mikeames said:
Cavie can you give me a code reference on this? What do you mean about the 65 amps and automatic switching? Are you saying you cant have a 100 amp ATS in a resident in FL? I am confused.
Click to expand...

I'm saying that the ATS can switch only 65amps of load. You can't auto switch a 65 amp genset to a 200 amp panel. Manual switching is ok. You are there to select the load.
 
Cavie is correct here. Our new MOD Bryan I believe has the link to Tarry Bakers guidelines on this which to my understanding has been adopted by most of Fla.
 
I found one in my pile of paper here. Broward County Board of Rules & Appeals

Policy # 06-01

I will try to link this but if anyone can link it quicker, I wouldn't mind.;)
 
The "black box" in the Generac generator contains controls for the "exercise" function, for controlling the generator and protecting it against low oil pressure and overvoltage, for operating the generator when it gets a signal from the transfer switch, and for shutting down the generator when the POCO power is restored.

In one that I installed there was no POCO power and the generator was used to provide power for a pump that came on to supply water when demanded. I had to figure out the circuit and make up a control to simulate the "POCO power outage" condition.

With a different transfer switch it would probably be necessary to make the transfer switch deliver the commands to and act on the responses from the generator.
 
Generac Link

Generac Link

http://www.generac.com/Products/Residential/AirCooled/Manuals.aspx

0G0492.pdf
Page 31 Wire 194 & 23 go to the coils of the transfer switch. On the CH transfer switch there is a control board. I will try to locate the pdf of the transfer switch schematic and post it.

http://shop.briggsandstratton.com/BShopProductPage.asp?CatalogID=FBE272B6-DB32-4C3F-9B38-8DB93FAB1434&MECID=100&SessionID=A1113AC9-5972-4437-98C0-DE64AFE81552&CategoryID=&lrid=&ProductID=718D7E93-19AF-44C2-AA4E-193FC35A63F6#

Page 15 in the pdf is Wiring Schematic on the CH ATS.
 
Last edited:
tshea said:
http://www.generac.com/Products/Residential/AirCooled/Manuals.aspx

0G0492.pdf
Page 31 Wire 194 & 23 go to the coils of the transfer switch. On the CH transfer switch there is a control board. I will try to locate the pdf of the transfer switch schematic and post it.

http://shop.briggsandstratton.com/BShopProductPage.asp?CatalogID=FBE272B6-DB32-4C3F-9B38-8DB93FAB1434&MECID=100&SessionID=A1113AC9-5972-4437-98C0-DE64AFE81552&CategoryID=&lrid=&ProductID=718D7E93-19AF-44C2-AA4E-193FC35A63F6#

Page 15 in the pdf is Wiring Schematic on the CH ATS.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for posting this information. e/m
 
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