Generator Question

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jzadroga

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I have several questions about a generator bid I I'm working on.

1. Does Kohler manufacture thier 60KW generators for Detroit Diesel or the other way around? If you go to their web sites and look at the pdf's of Kohler's 60RZG series and Detroit Diesels 60GSG Series you will see that they are identical except for brand designations. Same with thier transfer switches.

2. Because of engineering specs the generator is 1100 ft from the home. They also spec three parallel sets of 400mcm copper in 3in conduit to compensate for voltage drop. (I haven't verified the wire size with my own calculations yet). Does anyone have suggestions on how to install the wires. I think that by using two hand holes I can keep the pulls to 400 ft per segment.

3. What kind of pulling equipment would work the best. I'm looking at the Greenlee ultra tugger. It has 8000 lbs of pulling power. This is probably the only time I will ever need to pull such a long run of large cables.

4. What is the best source to get the generator from?
 
Re: Generator Question

Kohler manufactures the Detroit product and paints it a different color. Other than the color, it's the same.
I've seen the paint booth at the kohler plant in Wisconsin.
 
Re: Generator Question

a 60 kva generator requiring three parallel runs of 400mcm copper for voltage drop----think about it!
and there are many ways to skin a bear---how much do you think a super tugger cost?

sounds to me - you need to reconsider taking this job!
 
Re: Generator Question

The 3 runs of 400 would get 250 amps at 240 volt out 1100' with less than 3% drop.

Two runs of 600 copper would get you the same result. I would try to sell them on two sets of 600s I believe it would be cheaper.

The super tugger or ultra tagger could do this pull in 400' segments but could also do it in two 600' segments.

If you only need this stuff once borrow or rent it, once you buy everything you need you will be above $8,000.

You might think about subcontracting this work to an EC that is used to big pulls.

If you do it.

1)Use steel 45 and 90 sweeps, do not even think about making corners with PVC, the pulling rope will cut through PVC corners.

2)Get a rope that will do the job a 1" rope would be what I would use.

3)Use pulling 'knuckles' or a basket but make sure these are in top condition.

4)Do not be cheap with wire lube, use plenty. I would have 15 gals available for three 1,100' foot pulls in 3" raceways.

5)Set up the feeding spool(s) as best you can, I actually use a level on the axle the reels spin on, if you do not level the axle the spool will walk and become hard to handle.

6)At the pulling end I would want the ultra tugger as this puts the force of the pull right on the raceway. On the end I expect to pull from I might even use rigid conduit for the last 10'.

It is amazing the damage you can do with these pullers, I saw a 4" EMT connector and all get pulled right through the top of a heavy steel enclosure. :D


Good luck and don't stand near the pull rope under tension.

Bob

[ October 04, 2004, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Generator Question

To add to Bob's post, you will need a good set of radios if you can not see each end of the pull from both locations, you will also need at least 4 people at the feed end, (this is considering experienced people in these types of pulls) and you will need two at the pulling end (one to listen to the aforementioned radio, this is the gravy position :) )

Roger

[ October 04, 2004, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: Generator Question

My company owns that tugger and was told it ran almost $9,000 but it is very impressive.Might i ask just how often this gen. will be needed ? Maybe aluminum would be cheaper if only needed a few times.The markup on the wire should pay for that tugger LOL
 
Re: Generator Question

Jim, he must bid on what is specified the same as all the others will bid on. I don't think the argument that changing to aluminum will finance a tugger for his company will hold much weight.

Roger
 
Re: Generator Question

We are talking 10000 feet off 400 copper.That might not pay for the tugger but would make one big dent.
Nothing says we can't suggest aluminum and bid it both ways.
 
Re: Generator Question

If you suggest bidding it both ways, an addendum will be sent out to all bidders and there is no advantage in financing a tool is there? :roll:

We own two super tuggers, and a total of somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 tuggers all together, when we bid jobs, all others will bid the same, or the companies like us will definatly call foul and probably have the others disqualified.

After the contact is awarded the V.E. process can begin.

Roger
 
Re: Generator Question

I contacted an EC that can do the pull for me. They estimate the cost at 2500 to 3500. An Ultra tugger would be 7,000 from my supplier if I buy the 400's from them. So I probably will use the contractor as he knows how to do big pulls efficiently. Plus he supplies the labor.

I received a qoute from Detroit diesel for 19,000 for a 60kw generator. Shipping extra probably.

Thanks for the tip on the conduit sweeps.

I have tried to talk the engineers out of the long distance location but they claim the owner decided the location. I told them that as long as the owner knows the options then I will put it where ever they want. It wont be cheap. The wire will cost more than the generator.
 
Re: Generator Question

I come up with three sets of 600 AL to get the same voltage drop as two sets of 600 CU. I am just used to copper, the only time I see aluminum it is for temporary feeders. :)
 
Re: Generator Question

Originally posted by jimwalker:
does anyone even rent a super tugger ?
Click to expand...
We have a place near us that will rent us tuggers, threaders, benders etc. We have our own but not enough of them sometimes.
 
Re: Generator Question

Originally posted by jimwalker:
does anyone even rent a super tugger ?
Click to expand...
B&K tools Asheville N.C.

Roger
 
Re: Generator Question

what i was thinking about is that sure is alot of copper for a sixty kw generator---did you check the voltage drop calcs?
 
Re: Generator Question

Originally posted by charlie tuna:
what i was thinking about is that sure is alot of copper for a sixty kw generator---did you check the voltage drop calcs?
Click to expand...
60 KW is 250 amps at 240 single phase, the copper they called for will deliver the full 250 amps with just about 2.5% voltage drop at the end of 1,100'. :)

It does seem unlikely that the generator will ever be loaded to the maximum.
 
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