Generator Transfer Switch above water spigot.

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infinity

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I'm not going to die on the switch-gear hill, I'll admit it's a stretch.

My whole point was just that a service rated ATS should be readily accessible and fall under the dedicated work-space requirements. This piece of equipment could have three/ four conduits coming out of it which we need clear space for. Furthermore this equipment could potentially be the only means of disconnect for the building or structure. I don't know a good inspector who wouldn't have issue with having one these installed behind a central AC unit or if inside, a wall with less than 3' of front clearance.
I apologize if I seemed somewhat harsh in post #14 but as you've just stated it was an enormous stretch.

I think that maybe were talking about two different things here, one is dedicated equipment space and the other is working space. For an ATS dedicated equipment space does not apply because it is not on the list of 4 items in 110.26(E). Working space applies to items in 110.26(A). A panel above the water spigot would require the dedicated space.
 

jhachris

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NY
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I apologize if I seemed somewhat harsh in post #14 but as you've just stated it was an enormous stretch.

I think that maybe were talking about two different things here, one is dedicated equipment space and the other is working space. For an ATS dedicated equipment space does not apply because it is not on the list of 4 items in 110.26(E). Working space applies to items in 110.26(A). A panel above the water spigot would require the dedicated space.

True.
 

kwired

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NE Nebraska
I'm not going to die on the switch-gear hill, I'll admit it's a stretch.

My whole point was just that a service rated ATS should be readily accessible and fall under the dedicated work-space requirements. This piece of equipment could have three/ four conduits coming out of it which we need clear space for. Furthermore this equipment could potentially be the only means of disconnect for the building or structure. I don't know a good inspector who wouldn't have issue with having one these installed behind a central AC unit or if inside, a wall with less than 3' of front clearance.
No one ever said it didn't still require working space, just that it maybe doesn't require dedicated equipment space.
 

Strombea

Senior Member
I hate to keep this going but I would agree with JHACHRIS that an ATS with a 200 amp main disconnect would now be considered switchgear or "main panel" as we install them all the time from a meter can straight to the ATS being the first disconnect that say a fire department or someone would use for disconnecting means. Service Rated ATS can also accept the GEC and one could argue that anything beyond needs separate EGC and considered "sub panel". I agree though that a hose bib wouldn't affect it as no future installed equipment below it would be realistic.
 

charlie b

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My whole point was just that a service rated ATS should be readily accessible and fall under the dedicated work-space requirements.
Being readily accessible and falling under the dedicated space requirements are two completely different things. And it's not "dedicated work space." It's "dedicated equipment space." It's not the space where work is done, not the space where workers stand while doing work. It's the space above and below the component, where we are not allowed to install pipes and ducts and the like. 110.26(A) requires us to leave room for a worker to work safely. 110.26(E) says not to put stuff above or below one of the four types of electrical equipment named earlier.
 

charlie b

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I hate to keep this going but I would agree with JHACHRIS that an ATS with a 200 amp main disconnect would now be considered switchgear or "main panel" as we install them all the time from a meter can straight to the ATS being the first disconnect that say a fire department or someone would use for disconnecting means.
And I am going to disagree with you both. Being the first on/off device after the meter can (i.e., the "main panel") does not cause something to become "switchgear." That word, at least in the context of 110.26(E), means something that could easily be 7 feet high, 6 feet wide, and 5 feet deep, and has draw-out breakers that weigh over 100 pounds each. And yes it can be the "main panel," where fire department personnel would turn off power to the building. But I have done a design that had any number of "sub panels" that were of the switchgear configuration.
 

jhachris

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And I am going to disagree with you both. Being the first on/off device after the meter can (i.e., the "main panel") does not cause something to become "switchgear." That word, at least in the context of 110.26(E), means something that could easily be 7 feet high, 6 feet wide, and 5 feet deep, and has draw-out breakers that weigh over 100 pounds each. And yes it can be the "main panel," where fire department personnel would turn off power to the building. But I have done a design that had any number of "sub panels" that were of the switchgear configuration.

I think we all understand our interpretation of switch-gear in the field and again I don't feel so passionately about this either way but nowhere in the definition of switch-gear, in the code book, is anything mentioned regarding required minimum physical size or weight. While we all understand what a typical switch-gear is in the field, the definition, by itself in a vacuum, leaves room for interpretation.
 

jim dungar

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... in the definition of switch-gear, in...
Based on the definition you cited, the term switchgear could also apply to a panelboard, if it applied to an ATS. So why does the code mention panels and switchgear as different items?
 

jhachris

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NY
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I hear ya so basically just because something falls within the definition of switch-gear doesn't make it so unless it can not be attributed to any other piece of equipment i.e panelboard, ATS etc.
 

charlie b

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This is going to sound way, way off the wall. And I don’t have time to think up any really good examples that would support my point. So I will just offer the opinion that definitions are “one way things,” and then provide one sorta weak example.

If you come across an unfamiliar word, you can look up its definition to learn what it means. However, if you start by reading a definition, and can think of something that meets that definition, that doesn’t mean you were thinking of that same unfamiliar word. Definitions don’t go backwards. Just because an ATS has some characteristics that are included in the definition of switchgear, that does not imply that an ATS is a type of switchgear.

My weak example: The car theft was young, perhaps 22, light skin, brown hair, wearing blue jeans and a red hat. I see someone walking across the street who is young, perhaps 22, light skin, brown hair, wearing blue jeans and a red hat. Can you conclude that that person is the car thief? It might be, or it might not be, and the police might want to have a word with him. But the fact that he answers the description does not imply that he is the criminal.
 

don_resqcapt19

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One of the differences between a panel and switchgear is that the switchgear is a complete assembly of both the enclosure and the electrical parts. A panelboard is only the electrical parts designed to be installed in a cabinet. The ATS is not covered by Article 406, so it is not a switchboard, a panelboard and switchgear. 110.26 (E) does not apply here.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
One of the differences between a panel and switchgear is that the switchgear is a complete assembly of both the enclosure and the electrical parts. A panelboard is only the electrical parts designed to be installed in a cabinet. The ATS is not covered by Article 406, so it is not a switchboard, a panelboard and switchgear. 110.26 (E) does not apply here.
Now throw in an ATS that also incorporates branch breakers.o_O
 

wyreman

Senior Member
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SF CA USA
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electrical contractor
A panelboard with a main breaker is the point of service entrance/service disconnecting means - so is a service rated transfer switch. They would fall under the same requirement.

And you're right it's from the floor (indoor) or grade (outdoor) to 6 ' above.
raising the grade!
 
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