Generator Transfer Switch Location

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brother

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Im curious, ive searched the code but having trouble finding it.

This is just a residential house. They have a 200 panel outside the shed. They want a generator with a transfer switch installed. The only ones ive found at homechepo or lowes is an INDOOR switch. I assume it would be ok to have the switch INSIDE the shed with the generator, since the load panel would be just outside, (on the other side of the wall actuallY).

But somewhere i thought i remember reading that the 'Disconnect' for a building (including residential) had to be out side the building in order to disconnect the power to the whole building. Please tell me im wrong. LOL

But then again i still see new houses with just the main being built with the disconnect in the panel. My only concern is that would NOT the transfer switch be the new disconnect/main now and does it have to be in sight or within reach of the main load panel? Or is it considered the main panel now comming from the generator. ?

I dont think it would be a problem to have the transfer switch for the panel inside the shed with the generator, but just wanted to be sure. ;) its been a while since ive done residential main panel transfer switches. :)
 
All the major electrical manufacturers make NEMA 3R double pole TS, but the cost for 3R is a lot more.
Is there an existing feed to the house from the shed? Is this a 3 wire or 4 wire?
 
brother said:
I dont think it would be a problem to have the transfer switch for the panel inside the shed with the generator, but just wanted to be sure. ;) its been a while since ive done residential main panel transfer switches. :)
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230.70(A) (1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.

ARTICLE 445 Generators

Also see

702.6 Transfer Equipment.
.
 
i hate to raise this crazy question why the main disconnection switch from shed to the house is only 3 wires ?? is that shed is all plastic or metal shed ??

and is this shed is attched to the main building or it stand alone building ?? if stand alone it should have 4 wire running from shed to house

I just want to clear up this fact before i can speak anymore answer with it.:rolleyes:

Merci , Marc
 
There are several unanswered questions here. Mine are:

Is there a separate main switch and main-lug panel, or just one main-breaker panel?

Is the transfer switch a whole-house switch or the few circuits type?

Is it auto or manual?

If whole-house, is it service-rated?
 
frenchelectrican said:
i hate to raise this crazy question why the main disconnection switch from shed to the house is only 3 wires ?? is that shed is all plastic or metal shed ??

and is this shed is attched to the main building or it stand alone building ?? if stand alone it should have 4 wire running from shed to house

I just want to clear up this fact before i can speak anymore answer with it.:rolleyes:

Merci , Marc
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Im sorry, maybe i didnt explain it right. the wire from the SHED to the HOUSE is 4 WIRE!! Im talking about the transfer at the shed. Thats where the service from the Utility comes in and where the Meter is which is a 3 WIRE. Just 3 wires from the Utility pole to the meter main panel. and 4 WIRE from that panel to the house (I hope i made it clear now. :) .

Im asking if its OK to have the transfer at the shed but INSIDE the shed when the meter and the main panel is OUTSIDE. I know they make outdoor transfer switches but the homeowner only wanted a few circuits for when the power goes out from the utility. Thanks.
 
LarryFine said:
There are several unanswered questions here. Mine are:

Is there a separate main switch and main-lug panel, or just one main-breaker panel? ?
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If i understand the question right, there is a seperate main switch as i had said my previous post.

LarryFine said:
Is the transfer switch a whole-house switch or the few circuits type??
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Just a few, 10 to be exact. He just want his refrigerator, his sump pump, and some lights on the generator.

LarryFine said:
Is it auto or manual???
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its manual. that was the cheapest one, the auto are too much for him. :) So when the power is off he walks outside to the shed and start up the generator and switch the load. :)

LarryFine said:
If whole-house, is it service-rated???
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its NOT the whole house. :)
 
It is hard to give the exact answer from the information in your post. You have a good picture in your head of what you see, but you are having a difficult time "drawing" us this same picture.

Yes, you can have the transfer switch inside the shed. The transfer switch you have needs to be installed on the load side of the service disconnect, as it is not rated as a service disconnect.
 
Let me see if I understand what you have. The house is fed with a single 4-wire branch feeder from the shed. The shed has the main service entrance from the power company. The owner wants a generator at the shed that will power the house. You mentioned the transfer switch you propose to use is a manual selective type with 10 circuits. This is the wrong type of switch for the application. That type of switch transfers individual 15amp, 20amp, and 30amp circuits individually. In order to use that switch, you will need to place it next to the sub-panel in the house and run a circuit for the generator feed out to the shed. If you want the switch to be located in the shed, you will need a larger 2-pole, double throw switch sized to match the house feeder.
Please consider getting assistance from an electrician who is experienced with generator systems. These things can get very complicated. If not installed properly, you can easily damage your motor driven appliances in the house or the generator itself, or even cause injury to a power company lineman.
 
ramdiesel3500 said:
Let me see if I understand what you have. The house is fed with a single 4-wire branch feeder from the shed. The shed has the main service entrance from the power company. The owner wants a generator at the shed that will power the house. You mentioned the transfer switch you propose to use is a manual selective type with 10 circuits. This is the wrong type of switch for the application. That type of switch transfers individual 15amp, 20amp, and 30amp circuits individually. In order to use that switch, you will need to place it next to the sub-panel in the house and run a circuit for the generator feed out to the shed. If you want the switch to be located in the shed, you will need a larger 2-pole, double throw switch sized to match the house feeder.
Please consider getting assistance from an electrician who is experienced with generator systems. These things can get very complicated. If not installed properly, you can easily damage your motor driven appliances in the house or the generator itself, or even cause injury to a power company lineman.
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Absolutely Correct!. And very good advice too.

brother...If you're wanting to use one of those 10 circuit (package) types that you buy at the big orange store to do what I think that you're wanting to do, then you're way off base. To do what you want, you'll need a manual transfer switch with the same rating (or larger) as the electrical service from the shed to the house (you said 200A?), and they ain't cheap. If properly installed, this transfer switch will allow (require) you to DISCONNECT from the utility co. service before you can power the house with a generator. With this set-up, the homeowner will have to turn off certain breakers (loads) in the house whenever he powers up with the generator, otherwise he will overload the generator. There are other important rules that you must follow to have a safe installation. I'm not saying that you can't manage it , rather I'm suggesting that you read all of the information available (NEC and many web sites online) and make sure that you understand exactly how these systems (and related components) work before you do any installation.
As ramdiesel mentioned, you could kill or injure a lineman or someone else, or destroy property if you don't hook it up right.
steve
 
hillbilly said:
Absolutely Correct!. And very good advice too.

brother...If you're wanting to use one of those 10 circuit (package) types that you buy at the big orange store to do what I think that you're wanting to do, then you're way off base. To do what you want, you'll need a manual transfer switch with the same rating (or larger) as the electrical service from the shed to the house (you said 200A?), and they ain't cheap. If properly installed, this transfer switch will allow (require) you to DISCONNECT from the utility co. service before you can power the house with a generator. With this set-up, the homeowner will have to turn off certain breakers (loads) in the house whenever he powers up with the generator, otherwise he will overload the generator. There are other important rules that you must follow to have a safe installation. I'm not saying that you can't manage it , rather I'm suggesting that you read all of the information available (NEC and many web sites online) and make sure that you understand exactly how these systems (and related components) work before you do any installation.
As ramdiesel mentioned, you could kill or injure a lineman or someone else, or destroy property if you don't hook it up right.
steve
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Thanks for the advice. I understand that COMPLETELY about the lineman being protected.

ramdiesel3500 said:
In order to use that switch, you will need to place it next to the sub-panel in the house and run a circuit for the generator feed out to the shed
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Looks like you saying that the transfer switch HAS TO be close to the SUBpanel (which is a 200 amp panel). and Oh by the way, this is for a friend. Im just assisting him Im not actually doing the work. ;) I suppose i didnt make that clear either (even though i feel im qualified to do it) too busy with other things. Just that now it looks like hes going to have to run wire from the shed to the house for the little generator.

Can the 30 amp wire share the same conduit as the subpanel feeders i SEE NOTHING in the code that says you cant. ? the conduit is big enuff. and Its NOT SERVICE wire. :) Or worse case scenerio can the transfer switch with the 15, 20 amp breakers be at the shed with the generator and just run the 'load' wires for the lites (etc) thru the condiut with the sub panel feeders?
 
Can you return the transfer switch you have? If so, consider this one instead: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42163

It is rated as Suitable for use a Service Equipment, but it has no integral overcurrent protection so it must be adjacent to your existing main disconnect if you put it on the line side of your existing service. I believe this is a 3R panel (I can check my 100A version if you really want to know). You may also be able to use it on the load side of your service disconnect which may make things quite a bit easier to do.

I think you can put the 30A feeder in the same conduit as the 200A feeder if you want to if you don't violate the conduit fill rules. I think you can avoid any derating issues by saying the intent of the feeders is only one or the other will be used at a given time and not together.
 
suemarkp said:
Can you return the transfer switch you have? If so, consider this one instead: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42163

It is rated as Suitable for use a Service Equipment, but it has no integral overcurrent protection so it must be adjacent to your existing main disconnect if you put it on the line side of your existing service. I believe this is a 3R panel (I can check my 100A version if you really want to know). You may also be able to use it on the load side of your service disconnect which may make things quite a bit easier to do.

I think you can put the 30A feeder in the same conduit as the 200A feeder if you want to if you don't violate the conduit fill rules. I think you can avoid any derating issues by saying the intent of the feeders is only one or the other will be used at a given time and not together.
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thanks for the link, thats the cheapest one ive seen for that amount of amperage. I just hope that Cutler Hammer is good brand on this product. Thanks again. :)
 
brother
suemarkp has found you a great option there. That is the best price for a 200A transfer switch I have ever seen! Great deal! If you use this switch, then you won't need any additional circuits to the house. You will just need to be sure you don't overload your generator. I have this exact set-up at my home. My main service is in my barn 200 feet from my house. My house is treated as an out-building. I have a 200 amp transer switch at the service. When utility power fails (which is quite often at my location) I go to my 200A sub-panel in the house and turn off all large non-essential electrical load circuit breakers (hot-tub, oven, clothes dryer, water heater, A/C, Elect. Heat) and all motor load breakers (refrigerator, well pump, septic pump). Then I go to the barn and fire up my little 5KW gasoline portable generator. I plug in the L14-20 cord that is wired to the generator side of my 200A switch. Next, I throw the switch from "utility" to "generator". That little generator carries the general lighting load of the house and barn just fine. Then I go back to the house sub-panel and turn on the motor loads one-at-a-time. From there, I select loads so as to not overload the generator. The system works great and I have found the 5kw generator to be quite miserly on fuel during extended outages. (approx. 6-8 gallons in 24 hours) I have considered getting a 12 KW unit so I can run the A/C and other larger loads, but I cannot justify it. Hope you find this info helpful!
 
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