joe tedesco
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, Massachusetts
Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
- Thread starter joe tedesco
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joe tedesco
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, Massachusetts
Re: Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
Earl:
Both! Would you want to answer to someone's family if a child, who was sitting near this can of soda, was electrocuted?
Sure, an eye sore it may be, but the possibility of the exposed and abandoned liveconductor's on a city street (this one in Atlantic City, New Jersey) could be the end of a life.
Tell me where you are located, and I may have some images from that location, or I couild make it my business to take a look when in the area.
PS: Homework for your students? Ask them to walk around the block in their city and take a picture or note some of the so-called "eye sores" of abandoned wiring. You could do the same I am sure.
Earl:
Both! Would you want to answer to someone's family if a child, who was sitting near this can of soda, was electrocuted?
Sure, an eye sore it may be, but the possibility of the exposed and abandoned liveconductor's on a city street (this one in Atlantic City, New Jersey) could be the end of a life.
Tell me where you are located, and I may have some images from that location, or I couild make it my business to take a look when in the area.
PS: Homework for your students? Ask them to walk around the block in their city and take a picture or note some of the so-called "eye sores" of abandoned wiring. You could do the same I am sure.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
When you say abandoned I think of non-functioning electrical wires. I would hope they are de-energized! In that case they would be an eyesore rather than an electrical hazard.
My pet peeve is street lights. There is usually a pull/splice-cover right at bumper level. These pull/slice covers get run into then fall off. They cannot be re-attached. The cities don't seem to have an inventory of replacement covers. The poles may be old or they may come from dozens of different manufacturers. The cities claim it's hard to get replacement covers so they leave exposed connections at these damaged poles.
The other problem with these bumper-level covers/openings is that when the pole gets hit really hard by a bumper the pole breaks off and falls over.
Joe: I'll bet you have lots of pictures of missing J-covers on street lights?
[Note: Joe Tedesco sent me this picture after my original posting. You'll notice in Joe's picture the J-cover is at bumper height, but turned away from the curb. In the crash picture at the bottom you'll notice that the J-cover is at bumper height and easily hit by a stray car]:
++++
In this accident the pole is fractured at the J-cover. If you look closely you can see the fracture. The pole is leaning on the car. The only thing holding this pole up is the car. The pole had to be removed with a crane before the car could be towed away. The J-access is a weak spot-- and right at bumper level.
[ October 06, 2003, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
When you say abandoned I think of non-functioning electrical wires. I would hope they are de-energized! In that case they would be an eyesore rather than an electrical hazard.
My pet peeve is street lights. There is usually a pull/splice-cover right at bumper level. These pull/slice covers get run into then fall off. They cannot be re-attached. The cities don't seem to have an inventory of replacement covers. The poles may be old or they may come from dozens of different manufacturers. The cities claim it's hard to get replacement covers so they leave exposed connections at these damaged poles.
The other problem with these bumper-level covers/openings is that when the pole gets hit really hard by a bumper the pole breaks off and falls over.
Joe: I'll bet you have lots of pictures of missing J-covers on street lights?
[Note: Joe Tedesco sent me this picture after my original posting. You'll notice in Joe's picture the J-cover is at bumper height, but turned away from the curb. In the crash picture at the bottom you'll notice that the J-cover is at bumper height and easily hit by a stray car]:
++++
In this accident the pole is fractured at the J-cover. If you look closely you can see the fracture. The pole is leaning on the car. The only thing holding this pole up is the car. The pole had to be removed with a crane before the car could be towed away. The J-access is a weak spot-- and right at bumper level.
[ October 06, 2003, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
Joe,
I guess we have to define "abandoned". I don't consider any conductor that is connected to a power source to be "abandoned". If the conductors in your picture are connected to a power source there is a very serious safety hazard, but there are also violations of existing code sections.
Don
Joe,
I guess we have to define "abandoned". I don't consider any conductor that is connected to a power source to be "abandoned". If the conductors in your picture are connected to a power source there is a very serious safety hazard, but there are also violations of existing code sections.
Don
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
The main problem I see here is putting the J-cover at bumper level which makes the J-cover susceptible to damage. Once damaged they are not repaired and the wire junctions become an attractive nuisance & hazard.
I'm not convinced that putting them at bumper level is a safety design feature.
That would be fine if it broke off at ground level. It is my opinion that the impact is NOT reduced if it breaks off at bumper level.
The main problem I see here is putting the J-cover at bumper level which makes the J-cover susceptible to damage. Once damaged they are not repaired and the wire junctions become an attractive nuisance & hazard.
I'm not convinced that putting them at bumper level is a safety design feature.
Re: Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
Joe, I live in Connecticut. I only asked the question because your picture begged it of me!!!!!
I agree that not only is abandoned wiring an eyesore, but it may be energized, or may become energized by someone who thinks he has traced all branches of the branch circuit out, and wants to use this little section to save work. If all unused sections of wiring are remove in their entirety, then such disasters cannot happen.
Earl
Joe, I live in Connecticut. I only asked the question because your picture begged it of me!!!!!
I agree that not only is abandoned wiring an eyesore, but it may be energized, or may become energized by someone who thinks he has traced all branches of the branch circuit out, and wants to use this little section to save work. If all unused sections of wiring are remove in their entirety, then such disasters cannot happen.
Earl
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
Break away poles, if installed per federal highway regulations are designed to be no more than 4" high after being hit.
The pole in the picture is not a break away pole (slip base). Slip base poles are not used in urban areas with arterial speeds 35 mph and less,as a pole being knocked off its base would create a hazard. However if hit hard enough, the pole will fail at the weld between the base plate and pole shaft.
I was on one knock down where the pole was hit by a dump truck trailer. The mast arm fell across the hood of a car who was stopped at the light. The driver of the car didn't have a valid drivers license.
[ October 06, 2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: tom baker ]
Break away poles, if installed per federal highway regulations are designed to be no more than 4" high after being hit.
The pole in the picture is not a break away pole (slip base). Slip base poles are not used in urban areas with arterial speeds 35 mph and less,as a pole being knocked off its base would create a hazard. However if hit hard enough, the pole will fail at the weld between the base plate and pole shaft.
I was on one knock down where the pole was hit by a dump truck trailer. The mast arm fell across the hood of a car who was stopped at the light. The driver of the car didn't have a valid drivers license.
[ October 06, 2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: tom baker ]
Re: Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
To get a rule that all abandonded wiring be removed, statistics stating the degree of risk involved in not removing the wiring, would be required to substantiate this costly activity.
The installations, in the pictures, are not code violations, they are developing maintenance problems from wear and tear from time and use. They are safety issues for OSHA, or local safety persons to deal with.
To get a rule that all abandonded wiring be removed, statistics stating the degree of risk involved in not removing the wiring, would be required to substantiate this costly activity.
The installations, in the pictures, are not code violations, they are developing maintenance problems from wear and tear from time and use. They are safety issues for OSHA, or local safety persons to deal with.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
It is interesting how the subject has turned from harmless abandoned wiring to missing hand hole covers. IPL has some really ugly replacement covers that will fit almost any hand hole and can't keep up with them. We cover them as soon as we know about them.
Joe, have you reported all of the missing hand hole covers that you have found missing (we can't fix anything that we don't know is broken)? By the way, I think you will find the hand holes are all at about 18" from the mounting flange. The public would be outraged if it were higher and it would be impossible to work on if it were much lower.
It is interesting how the subject has turned from harmless abandoned wiring to missing hand hole covers. IPL has some really ugly replacement covers that will fit almost any hand hole and can't keep up with them. We cover them as soon as we know about them.
Joe, have you reported all of the missing hand hole covers that you have found missing (we can't fix anything that we don't know is broken)? By the way, I think you will find the hand holes are all at about 18" from the mounting flange. The public would be outraged if it were higher and it would be impossible to work on if it were much lower.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
Wayne, your mailbox is full so I can't return a PM.
Hand holes that are higher will get into the "line of sight" of the public and complaints will be plentiful. It is the same with construction that is spread off the C/L of a pole line. The further off center, the more it is noticed. Various types of armless construction will lower public complaints about the looks of your construction.
Wayne, your mailbox is full so I can't return a PM.
Hand holes that are higher will get into the "line of sight" of the public and complaints will be plentiful. It is the same with construction that is spread off the C/L of a pole line. The further off center, the more it is noticed. Various types of armless construction will lower public complaints about the looks of your construction.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
Thanks for that. If you start a petition, I will sign it to allow hand holes to be raised in my jurisdiction. I'll even sign for your jursisdiction
My mailbox is full waiting for replies from other forum members. Many of them remain unread. I'll have to start deleting them. Some of them are worth archiving, so I'll archive and delete them from my queue.
I was wondering if maybe their mailboxes were full so they weren't seeing the PM's. But, if you got a full box warning, that kills that theory.
If I delete a PM on my end that is unanswered does that delete it from the other end too? PM's are server based, so that's another theory for now. Some of the posts online are better served by PM-- but it takes two to Tango
Thanks for that. If you start a petition, I will sign it to allow hand holes to be raised in my jurisdiction. I'll even sign for your jursisdiction
My mailbox is full waiting for replies from other forum members. Many of them remain unread. I'll have to start deleting them. Some of them are worth archiving, so I'll archive and delete them from my queue.
I was wondering if maybe their mailboxes were full so they weren't seeing the PM's. But, if you got a full box warning, that kills that theory.
If I delete a PM on my end that is unanswered does that delete it from the other end too? PM's are server based, so that's another theory for now. Some of the posts online are better served by PM-- but it takes two to Tango
joe tedesco
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, Massachusetts
Re: Get Rid of Abandoned Wiring Everywhere!
Charlie:
My message has been distributed to over 500,000 people who subscribe to EC&M and the old CEE News during the last few years, and the pictures I posted of the problems dealing with street lights is one that is well known!
I will begin to post even more, and will identify the areas so that everyone will know exactly where they are.
The picture that Wayne posted above was taken in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
If the cities and towns around our country would inspect and police their jurisdictions, we would fine fewer missing covers (often stolen for their junk yard exchange for dollars) and maybe some kids would still be alive today!
I was in Columbus, Ohio last month, and one of my students was in charge of the street lighting in that area.
He was sent to my class to learn more about the hazards associated with situations we are discussing here.
He was also very sad about the young man who was electrocuted on the bridge in his town.
Someone posted that information here in an earlier discussion.
Charlie:
My message has been distributed to over 500,000 people who subscribe to EC&M and the old CEE News during the last few years, and the pictures I posted of the problems dealing with street lights is one that is well known!
I will begin to post even more, and will identify the areas so that everyone will know exactly where they are.
The picture that Wayne posted above was taken in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
If the cities and towns around our country would inspect and police their jurisdictions, we would fine fewer missing covers (often stolen for their junk yard exchange for dollars) and maybe some kids would still be alive today!
I was in Columbus, Ohio last month, and one of my students was in charge of the street lighting in that area.
He was sent to my class to learn more about the hazards associated with situations we are discussing here.
He was also very sad about the young man who was electrocuted on the bridge in his town.
Someone posted that information here in an earlier discussion.
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