GFCI/AFCI question

[royguard]

It's been a looooooong week so maybe the brain is totally dead here... but here it goes:

- There is an office room at the front left of the house which is adjacent to the kitchen.

- When i was checking the office room's receptacle outlets with a 120V AC receptacle tester
with a GFCI push test button to see if there were any open ground, neutrals, etc., I
accidentally pushed the GFCI test button.

- I was surprised to see that all the outlets in the office were GFCI protected as they tripped
off when I pushed the test button.

Could it be possible that the office room's AFCIs could be tripped with a GFCI tester? Could this me an indication of an issue with the AFCIs?

Thanks for any insight!

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Depending on the brand of breaker, gfpe is built into the afci's. That is what id tripping the breaker

 

[Little Bill]

I would bet it's a dual function AFCI/GFCI. Could be they ran an outside receptacle off of the office circuit and it was cheaper/easier to just put in the DF breaker rather than an AFCI breaker and GFCI receptacle. I do this all the time on new construction, in fact, the cost of the DF breaker vs a GFCI breaker is minimal to none and I just put DF everywhere.

 

[Fred B]

I've had to use a few dual AF/GFCI due to shortages of straight AFCI to get the job done, price point difference minimal if any. Not sure if the shortage is just the direction mfg is going or covid.

 

[LarryFine]

Could be it was wired as a dining room if it's on a kitchen circuit.

 

[hbiss]

I was surprised to see that all the outlets in the office were GFCI protected as they tripped
off when I pushed the test button.

So, all the outlets were GFCIs and you had to reset each one?

No, I can't see any reason normally for all of them to trip from the tester at one receptacle. What happens when you press the test button on that receptacle?

And no, an AFCI receptacle shouldn't do that either.

I would look to see how each one was wired.

-Hal

 

[romex jockey]

so.......what did the panel reveal............? ~RJ~

 

[ptonsparky]

So, all the outlets were GFCIs and you had to reset each one?

No, I can't see any reason normally for all of them to trip from the tester at one receptacle. What happens when you press the test button on that receptacle?

And no, an AFCI receptacle shouldn't do that either.

I would look to see how each one was wired.

-Hal

I don’t believe each was a GFCI, only that they were protected.

 

[rnatalie]

It's possible someone connected the additional GFCI to the protected side of an earlier device. While the TEST button in that case wouldn't trip (because it just bypasses around the coil) those plug in testers that run current to ground through a resistor possibly could trip them all depending on how fast the closest one is.

 

[hbiss]

Eight answers and as many questions. I think we need to hear from the OP to clarify. Otherwise we are just wasting our time.

-Hal

 

[James L]

I think @Little Bill and @Fred B got it right.

 

[hbiss]

Well then he would have had to go to the panel and reset the breaker, wouldn't he? Ya think maybe he would have mentioned that?

-Hal

 

[James L]

Well then he would have had to go to the panel and reset the breaker, wouldn't he? Ya think maybe he would have mentioned that?

-Hal

Not if he didn't know about it.
He might have neen looking in the kitchen, since he mentioned it

 

[hbiss]

This is the kind of information I expect to get from a customer who calls me to look at their problem.

It's never as they say it is and if you believe it you are wasting your time.

-Hal

 

[kwired]

It's possible someone connected the additional GFCI to the protected side of an earlier device. While the TEST button in that case wouldn't trip (because it just bypasses around the coil) those plug in testers that run current to ground through a resistor possibly could trip them all depending on how fast the closest one is.

closeness shouldn't matter, current should be nearly instantaneously the same level in the entire circuit. If one would have faster response time than the rest it could be possible to trip just that one regardless of where it is in the circuit.

I believe listing standards likely have a minimum response time/current curve of some sort.

Some of the differences might depend on actual amount of current the tester introduces, but if it is at least 6 mA or more I'd guess you trip most all GFCI's that carry that current in any one test.

 

[rnatalie]

I'm not talking distance, I meant closest in response time. And since the operation is mechanical (i.e., slow), it's quite possible that you can trip multiple ones. Happens all the time on cascaded GFCIs.

 

[kwired]

I'm not talking distance, I meant closest in response time. And since the operation is mechanical (i.e., slow), it's quite possible that you can trip multiple ones. Happens all the time on cascaded GFCIs.

Yes. response time until the trip cycle begins is generally going to be in the same ballpark for all of them, but mechanical opening of contacts will be longer time. Still quick to us humans but slow when you use 1/60 second as the timing reference.