GFCI Breaker triping

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Cleveland Apprentice

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Cleveland, Oh
Hi,

On a recent job I've installed an outdoor outlet for a homeowner. The HO asked for the outlet to be wired on a GFCI breaker instead of a GFCI outlet. Now that Christmas is coming up, the HO started putting up Christmas lights and the GFCI constantly trips due to wetness on the extension cords/lights. The HO took it upon himself and changed out the breaker and put a regular 20 amp Siemens breaker in to avoid trips. The GFCI breaker that he took out was also a Siemens 20 amp breaker. This was a class A breaker. My question is does Siemens still make a class B GFCI breaker that has less tolerance to tripping? My understanding the class B trips at 30ma of leakage versus 5ma for class A. If not, does anyone have any suggestions? By the way, the Christmas lights and cords are in excellent condition.

Thanks
 
Cleveland Apprentice said:
...the HO started putting up Christmas lights and the GFCI constantly trips due to wetness on the extension cords/lights. ... By the way, the Christmas lights and cords are in excellent condition.
Thanks
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I don't agree. If the light sets are listed for outside use and the GFCI is tripping, they or the cords that connect them to the power source are not in excellent condition. There is leakage current that exceeds the ~5mA trip point of the GFCI.
 
Insulation is supposed to do it's job in the conditions of installation. Outside is wet, the insulation should be good enough to function (without tripping a GFI) it that wet location. I agree with Don (always the safe route :D ).
 
Joe

Joe

If everything is truly in "excellent shape", then I would take a look-see to how many connections there are (how many items have been plugged in). Excessive connections (by plugging in at a bunch of locations) and length of runs, may be a factor in the GFCI tripping. By the way, why not "try" a GFCI receptacle at the location where he is plugging into, thus shorting the distance & connections to the load ?
 
Joe

Joe

I forgot, also have you tried the GFCI breaker to see what "fault" it is tripping at, with no load on it? Might just be a GFCI that is tripping at to low a tolerance. I have ran into this before.
 
Holiday lights have so many potential places to fault to ground, especially when many people use staplers to attach them. Would not suprise me if this were the number one reason to require GFCI for outdoor receptacles back whenever the first code was that required it.

Even if you survive the shock, how often is a person on a roof or a ladder with these things and has risk of falling after reaction to the shock?
 
When people have extensive displays (ext cords,multiple connection points, long lines) and you then add moisture , it becomes very likely that even a "good" GFCI will trip.

As the amount of extension cords and wiring is added in series/parallel the capacitance adds up and thus the leakage to ground. It is possible that a GFCI, in some displays, may always be near the trip point even when dry, then when moisture is added leakage increases beyond the 5ma limit.


I good solution for this is to install multiple GFCI outlet devices (rather than one outlet or a breaker) and divide the loads up among the various outlet devices. That way the accumulated leakage is divided up for an "effective higher leakage tolerance" without sacrificing safety.
 
Cleveland Apprentice said:
Hi,

On a recent job I've installed an outdoor outlet for a homeowner. The HO asked for the outlet to be wired on a GFCI breaker instead of a GFCI outlet. Now that Christmas is coming up, the HO started putting up Christmas lights and the GFCI constantly trips due to wetness on the extension cords/lights. The HO took it upon himself and changed out the breaker and put a regular 20 amp Siemens breaker in to avoid trips. The GFCI breaker that he took out was also a Siemens 20 amp breaker. This was a class A breaker. My question is does Siemens still make a class B GFCI breaker that has less tolerance to tripping? My understanding the class B trips at 30ma of leakage versus 5ma for class A. If not, does anyone have any suggestions? By the way, the Christmas lights and cords are in excellent condition.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Class B GFCIs are for specific things, installing a class B here would be as much of a violation as just removing the GFCI.
 
I've seen frogs in a box tripping the GFI. Are the plugs bubble covers. If not, I would make them bubble covers AKA In use weatherproof housings. This would allow you to inspect each box as well.
 
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