GFCI Breakers - Needed for EV?

[dafish]

In another thread (thanks guys) I've been covering the specifications I need to ensure are met for a sub-panel extended to an attached garage and used for EV use and a small fridge/freezer. I know little to nothing about when/where GFCI breakers are called for, or even in they exist in the 240V world. Simple question:

For EV use at 240V, should I be asking for a GFCI breaker? At this moment we're only installing one end-point receptacle and it's going to be either a NEMA 14-50, or a 14-60. so either a 50 or 60 amp breaker.

Thanks!
-d

 

[wwhitney]

Depends on what version of the NEC you're on. For an EVSE connected to a receptacle, the 2020 NEC (625.54), and the 2017 NEC with a TIA (tentative interim amendment), both require it. So if your jurisdiction has adopted the 2020 NEC, or has adopted the 2017 NEC and adopted the TIA, the receptacle will require GFCI protection.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[dafish]

Thank you. Yes, at least the first car, and the one this is being done for, is receptacle based. re codes, I'm in a village that is lax with code and standards (as you can tell from my babysitting this design). But so what, if that's coming it will likely be called out sooner or later. I'll just get it done now.

 

[Fred B]

Depends on what version of the NEC you're on. For an EVSE connected to a receptacle, the 2020 NEC (625.54), and the 2017 NEC with a TIA (tentative interim amendment), both require it. So if your jurisdiction has adopted the 2020 NEC, or has adopted the 2017 NEC and adopted the TIA, the receptacle will require GFCI protection.

Cheers, Wayne

Don't have the 2020 for exact wording but came across an article discussing the new GFCI requirements that indicated that it read 125v to ground and 50A outlet, not receptacle, implying even hard wired equipment would require the GFCI. Discussion was around HVAC equipment, even without a fault situation, was tripping the GFCI. Thus some jurisdiction are removing that part from the local codes. If wording is "outlet" then even the 50a charger hardwired, under 2020, would need GFCI.

 

[wwhitney]

the new GFCI requirements that indicated that it read 125v to ground and 50A outlet, not receptacle, implying even hard wired equipment would require the GFCI.

That's 2020 210.8(F) and I agree it would apply to an outdoor EVSE whether cord and plug connected or not. 625.54 applies to all cord and plug connected EVSEs whether outdoors or not. So under 2020 only indoor, hardwired EVSEs do not require GFCI protection.

Cheres, Wayne

 

[ramsy]

Thank you. Yes, at least the first car, and the one this is being done for, is receptacle based. re codes, I'm in a village that is lax with code and standards (as you can tell from my babysitting this design). But so what, if that's coming it will likely be called out sooner or later. I'll just get it done now.

In CA the TIA for 2017 does not require the 2-Pole GFCI. When adopted, new code rules only go with new wiring.

All the existing & grandfathered Electric Range & Dryer appliances sitting there with neutrals bonded to the frames, will still electrocute everybody when main-bonding noodle comes loose.

The GFCI won't stop unqualified persons from lifting that noodle, or causing other typical hazards.

Since GFCI's only monitor Line-to-EGC, if raceways are subject to damage, or open outlets can be reached by toddlers, not behind a lockable outdoor enclosure, occupants can still get electrocuted from any Line-to-Line, or Line-to-Neutral contact.

The GFCI lets the main breaker decide when the maximum amperage is sufficiently exceeded for L-L & L-N contact.

If a toddler sticks objects in open slots of NEMA 14-50R car charging receptacle, installed by DIY homeowner or his handyman, its subject to construction-defect law, and no insurance covers it.

 

[dafish]

I get it, but if there's a chance he'd need it later for resale (and it's come up), or there is a sense his family would be safer I'm well aware he'd rather write the check now vs worry about it or re-do it and cost even more later. Certainly there is a limit to that, but "what can't my wife or kids screw up" is a pretty regular criteria in decision making. Thanks though!

BTW, nor do I discount conflicts between EVSE onboard circuit protection and panel mounted GFCI's, but I don't find anything clear on it, so it's going to be a "see what happens" deal.

 

[ramsy]

For similar cost as the extra GFCI, a building permit & inspection often makes electric car chargers eligible for utility rebates, $500 cash bonuses from the municipality, and removes an easy out for property insurance to deny claims due to missing building permits.

Unlike home inspectors not specialized by trade, municipal inspectors that come out to inspect a car charger are usually better prepared, more familiar with electrical code, can match wire size with the breaker, identify raceways subject damage, and thru the correction process, will be much more helpful to DIY's with owner builder permits.

Since these inspectors check for code minimum, any extra equipment or GFCI that exceeds code requirements is fine.

 

[dafish]

This is a fine idea! Thanks. I've mentioned elsewhere, and perhaps not in this thread, that in my little corner of the world code compliance seems to be somewhat relaxed. I'm quite certain I have no "city/township/village" inspection that's meaninful, and I don't even think we've a county compliance to work against. I usually ask for "Current NEC compliance" as I know it supercedes local codes.

But it certainly can' hurt to ask the village (we're 17K in population, so "village" seems wrong, but...) and so I shall. Thanks for the thought!

BTW, so far the electrician I've spoken with has been pretty easy. I've used the "just give a panel size you want" idea others have suggested and that's certainly helped to get us on familiar territory.