gfci & drinking fountians

[bill@usps06492]

Is it required to install a gfci on a drinking fountain that is serviced by a 120vac circuit? The drinking part of fountain is 42"off the floor, semi- premantley installed because of the plumbing, located in a industrial type building, 365,000sqft mail processing center, and the recptacles are 120v/20a duplexes located about 24"above the floor. This issue has come up many times in the past during our semi-annual saftey audits, and it has always been my opinion that this is a nonissue, and that there is no violation of the NEC. Has anyone else delt with this type of situation before, and what was the outcome?
Thanks. Bill M.

 

[roger]

Bill, you are correct, if the drinking fountain is not in one of the locations in 210.8(B) it does not require GFCI protection.

Roger

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Read art. 210.8(B) GFCI Protection for Other Than Dwelling Units--- If it is located indoors unless it is in a bathroom than there is no issue. Outside install needs to have GFCI if accessible

 

[realolman]

I am not arguing that all three previous posters are not NEC correct, but:

Why would the distinction be made between the possibility of being electrocuted in an unfinished basement or an accessory building having a floor located at or below grade, or being electrocuted in an industrial building with floor at or below grade?

It seems to me that recognizing and/or specifying similar conditions that might exist in two different locations might be more useful that a list of specific locations... That the floor at or below grade might be a better defining characteristic of a potential hazard than the location.

A drinking fountain in an unfinished basement requires a GFCI , but one in an essentially identical building where hundreds of people might work does not? Doesn't seem too logical to me.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Realolman

Why do you suppose that GFCI is required in an unfinished basement in a residence?

 

[tomP]

Realolman

Why do you suppose that GFCI is required in an unfinished basement in a residence?

Not to attempt to answer for someone else, but for safety of individuals using the 120 volt power available there.
So why isn't it required in an industrial or commercial setting below grade except in a bathroom?
You have me confused, is there another reason I am missing?

 

[joe tedesco]

Is it required to install a gfci on a drinking fountain that is serviced by a 120vac circuit? The drinking part of fountain is 42"off the floor, semi- premantley installed because of the plumbing, located in a industrial type building, 365,000sqft mail processing center, and the recptacles are 120v/20a duplexes located about 24"above the floor. This issue has come up many times in the past during our semi-annual saftey audits, and it has always been my opinion that this is a nonissue, and that there is no violation of the NEC. Has anyone else delt with this type of situation before, and what was the outcome?
Thanks. Bill M.

See 680.2 Fountain.

Fountains, ornamental pools, display pools, and reflection pools. The definition does not include drinking fountains.

Long ago, this was covered and the reasons were so that OSHA would not call for the protection.

 

[realolman]

Not to attempt to answer for someone else, but for safety of individuals using the 120 volt power available there.

I couldn't have answered it better, TomP

The floor at or below grade seems to be the indicating factor.

What's the difference whether it's in an unfinished basement, "accessory building" limited to a "work area", or an industrial building of essentially the same construction?

I really don't mean to argue with you, it just seems logical to me that the similarities in construction would indicate that if it's a good idea in garages, unfinished basements, and "accessory buildings", it would be a good idea in the industrial building as well.

 

[tomP]

See 680.2 Fountain.

Fountains, ornamental pools, display pools, and reflection pools. The definition does not include drinking fountains.

Long ago, this was covered and the reasons were so that OSHA would not call for the protection.

Understood.
The question remains, if it is unsafe in the residential enviroment, why isn't it unsafe in a commercial or industrial?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I tend to think that in a residential setting there is more likelyhood of using power tools, etc. I can't tell you how many times I walked bare foot in the basement to the refrigerator (code will change on this in 2008-- GFI will be required.

My point is I think there is a much higher likelyhood of homeownwers rigging extension cords, walking bare foot, using power tools, etc.

At a commercial setting one usually has shoes on at the water fountain--there is tile or carpet on the ground etc.

Only a guess, tho.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Check the installation instructions too. I have seen many drinking fountains installed with GFCI outlets. Part of the problem is, if the outlet trips then you have to take the whole drinking fountain apart to reset it.

After I posted this I went and looked at the installation instructions for a few water coolers and not one required a GFCI protected outlet.

 

[ryan_618]

Is it required to install a gfci on a drinking fountain that is serviced by a 120vac circuit?

It will be in 2008.

 

[joe tedesco]

It will be in 2008.

Ryan, please supply the ROP and ROC reference or Section number concerning the subject.

 

[George Stolz]

News to me too!

17-15 Log #463 NEC-P17 Final Action: Accept in Principle

(422.52 (New) )
________________________________________________________
Submitter: Dan Leaf, Seneca, SC
Comment on Proposal No: 17-28

Recommendation: Accept proposal revised:
Electric drinking fountains shall be provided with ground-fault circuit interrupter protection.

Substantiation: The submitter has proposed a good safety requirement.

Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Add new 422.52 to read as follows:
422.52 Electric Drinking Fountains. Electric drinking fountains shall be protected with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.

Panel Statement: The panel accepts the submitter?s recommendation but has added a title and used the word ?protected? rather than ?provided? for clarity. It has been brought to the attention of the panel that there have been documented fatalities that have been attributed to this kind of installation.
This requirement is not intended to apply to bottled water coolers.

Number Eligible to Vote: 14
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 13
Ballot Not Returned: 1 Gill, C.
Comment on Affirmative:
BLEWITT, T.: A single incident was described to the panel though two were reported to have occurred. The described incident involved a water fountain where the factory-supplied grounding pin of the attachment plug cap was removed.​

​

 

[ryan_618]

Thanks George.